ozarque ([info]ozarque) wrote,
@ 2008-01-30 08:25:00
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Linguistics; political rhetoric...
I had an e-mail recently from [info]the_drifter, saying:
"... there's one discussion I'd be very interested to see: how to strategically pick your examples when you're trying to inspire people to take political action. I posted an entry in my own journal about this recently, when someone speaking to a mostly Jewish audience drew a parallel between aspects of the current situation in the U.S. and Nazi Germany in 1932. I believe the speaker's intention was to inspire outrage, but my primary reaction was anxiety and fear, and from the looks on other people's faces, I think they felt the same way. ... We live in a time when many people lack the knowledge, drive, or political will to act up against some seriously troubling violations of human rights and civil liberties, both at home or abroad. I think it would be extremely valuable to know how to talk about these situations in a way that inspires people to rise up in protection of others, rather than retreat for their own safety."

I've been thinking about whether I could find a way to start that discussion, and making very little progress -- mostly, I suspect, because I am so very sad about what's been going on in the Democratic presidential primary. And this post isn't intended to represent an adequate start for such a discussion. It's more like a preface, and a very tentative preface at that.

What happened that made it possible for me to write even a preface is that an example much like the one described by [info]the_drifter suddenly came my way. I had just watched the tv coverage of Senator Ted Kennedy's endorsement speech for Barack Obama, with the introduction by Caroline Kennedy ... and suddenly MSNBC's Chris Matthews launched into a wild warble about how young people are always wondering what it was like at the start of the Sixties, and how this was what it had been like -- this kind of excitement, this kind of passion, this kind of inspiration, this kind of optimism, this kind of rhetoric ....

And the first thing that his warble brought to my mind wasn't the Summer of Love, and the flower children, and the psychedelics, and the spectacularly good rock music, and all the rest of that shiny array. The first thing that came to my mind was: "And then everybody got assassinated." Just those five words. JFK. Bobby Kennedy. Martin Luther King.

Chris Matthews gets carried away, and says dreadful things that he has to take back later, and he's the master of the Tannen School Of Talk Show Hosts, always interrupting and talking over the top of what his guests and co-hosts and panelists are trying to say. But I'm sure that his intention this time was to make his listeners feel the same delighted excitement he was feeling. In my case, that absolutely did not work.

In [info]the_drifter's example, someone compared the situation in the U.S. today to the situation in Germany in 1932, and it backfired; instead of inspiring outrage, it inspired "anxiety and fear." In my own example, Matthews compared the situation surrounding the Kennedy endorsements and the Obama candidacy to the start of the fabled Sixties, and (for me) it backfired. I knew what he meant, and I vividly remember the events and the incredible excitement and optimism he was being so loud and lyrical about -- and what his carrying on brought to my mind was: "And then everybody got assassinated." Anxiety and fear, for sure. Because there are people who are determined that no president of the United States shall ever be a woman, and that no president of the United States shall ever be a person of color, and I am by no means convinced that it's possible to protect Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama from those people.


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[info]dcseain
2008-01-30 02:43 pm UTC (link)
I agree with [info]the_drifter in terms of the parallels between what we've seen the government do over the last eight years here, and the Nazi manoeuvers in and around 1932; i'm just uncertain what there is to be done with my outrage, other than contact my representatives at various levels, and be ready for the potential of civil war.

Edited at 2008-01-30 02:51 pm UTC

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Response to dcseain...
[info]ozarque
2008-01-31 02:02 pm UTC (link)
I understand what you're saying. But I'm afraid I've lost all my faith in the efficacy of contacting my representatives, or anybody else's representatives. It seems to me that even the ones that may have good intentions haven't the vaguest idea what to do.

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Re: Response to dcseain... - [info]dcseain, 2008-01-31 04:06 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]thatwasjen
2008-01-30 02:47 pm UTC (link)
I had a similar reaction -- I really hadn't been frightened for the safety of Obama or Mrs. Clinton before, but now I'm rather terrified, and I easily see how Obama might exactly follow the path of Robert F. Kennedy. And I wasn't even alive in 1968.

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Respnse to thatwasjen...
[info]ozarque
2008-01-31 02:03 pm UTC (link)
It's truly scary. I think it's very hard not to be frightened.

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(Anonymous)
2008-01-30 02:51 pm UTC (link)
Wow. You have voiced what's been in the back of my mind for months now. I keep thinking Yes, if they survive to the election, and how are the Secret Service going to protect them now and afterwards, if they get elected?

There was an old Eddie Murphy comedy routine about Jessie Jackson being in training during a much older presidential campaign cycle - he was giving speeches while bobbing and weaving (supposedly to provide a more difficult target). That has also been replaying in my head as well.

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[info]voxwoman
2008-01-30 02:52 pm UTC (link)
that was me. I didn't realize I was logged out.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Response to voxwoman....
[info]ozarque
2008-01-31 02:08 pm UTC (link)
I keep thinking the same thing. It's not pleasant thinking, especially if (like me) you're someone who believes in emotional weather.

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[info]archangelbeth
2008-01-30 02:55 pm UTC (link)
I am hoping very hard that McCain will A) get his nomination (because he seems ornery enough to buck the party in places), and B) select a VP from the ranks of minorities and/or women. A canny politician's wife, say. Perhaps a hispanic politician from California.

I would like very, very much for both sides to have something new to offer. (Among other reasons... It wouldn't be So Totally Shocking if Clinton or Obama won. O:/ )

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[info]gardenwaltz
2008-01-30 05:51 pm UTC (link)
I would like to see the Democratic candidate (preferably Obama) pick up McCain for a vice-president. I don't know if it would be legal, but THAT would be crossing the aisle. I almost like McCain enough to accept him as president.

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(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-01-30 06:24 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to archangelbeth...
[info]ozarque
2008-01-31 02:11 pm UTC (link)
The idea of McCain as president -- at his age -- scares me. No matter how many people he might have helping him get the work done, it would be horrendously hard for him just to deal with the nonstop stress that comes with that job.

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[info]dagoski
2008-01-30 03:18 pm UTC (link)
I don't think we're in a space in time remotely comparable to 1930s Germany. We may well get there after this mess in Iraq and Afghanistan finishes up. There'll be a Dolchstoßlegende myth spun up by conservatives in an attempt to discredit whatever liberal government succeeds the Bush administration. But that's not now. We've got more of a Kaiser Wilhelm figure in charge right now.

I'm thinking the country is ready for either a black man or white woman in charge these days. I've been listening to the Republicans and they all sound thirty years out of date to me especially on immigration. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, Mexican and Central American immigrants were a "those people" even in Southern California. These days those same immigrants, illegal or not are just our neighbors even where I live now in Philadelphia . I also read an NYTimes article which held that the majority of US counties now have populations of ethnic/racial minorities that when combined are more than the white population. The county's numbers have changed. If Obama can keep uniting, he'll win if. And, should he be assassinated, the backlash will be utterly terrifying for conservatives. But I don't think that'll happen because there are so many Republicans who say they'll desert their part to vote for Obama. He's more likely to assassinated simply because he'd be president rather than because he's black. If Hillary Clinton wins, I do predict she will be assassinated by Christian Fundamentalists, and again, the backlash will have terrible consequences adding to the cultural backlash already hitting Christianity in the US. There's a study that I've yet to read in full that claims that younger people(35 and younger) are taking a dim view of the entire religion due to the political activities of fundamentalist activists over the past twenty years. If the study is correct, there appears to be a major cultural shift going on the in the US that will remove a lot of our assumptions about how our society works. There's also a shift going on Evangelicals away from the conservative cultural politics practiced by Dobson and Falwell and their ilk. Anyway, I get real feeling that US culture is undergoing some sort of transformation and that we can't make assumptions based on what's gone before. Paraphrasing a historian whose name I've forgotten, the symphony of history does not repeat itself, but some themes come to the fore throughout the performance.

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[info]dagoski
2008-01-30 03:36 pm UTC (link)
The reason I make the claims re Hillary Clinton's election is that the leaders of the Religious Right(and the Right Wing in general) has managed to foment an rabid hatred of her in the rank file. I ran across this in so many right of center men throughout the presidency of her husband. It was unreasoning, uninformed and intense. Also, many on the Religious Right have made it seem as if she's, I dunno, something like a vampire or something. They're treating the possibility of her election as if it were the end of the world. In my political memory, I cannot ever remember seeing this kind sentiment whipped towards a politician by competing political activists. Sure I've seen this hatred come up organically(just old enough to remember Nixon on the news and the adults reactions to him), but I've never seen someone demonized like Clinton is now. And I've never seen such a large number of people adopt such views at the behest of political activists.

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(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-01-30 05:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dagoski, 2008-01-30 06:14 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to dagoski...
[info]ozarque
2008-01-31 02:13 pm UTC (link)
You bring up many interesting points and ideas; thanks for the comment.

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[info]idiotgrrl
2008-01-30 03:24 pm UTC (link)
Comparing today to the start of the Sixties is like comparing the Winter Solstice to the Summer. Sorry. The 1932 comparison is far more apt. And Chris Matthews is an idiot.

However - I think Obama will carry the South. I think the revolution in that sneaked by us when we weren't noticing. And the layers of protection around everyone in public life are stiflingly thick these days - due, in part, to the spate of assassinations 40 years ago, the various lone-nut-job attempts of the intervening 40 years, and the fears of terrorism. The front runners will be wrapped in cotton wool over armor over cotton wool, believe me.

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Response to idiotgrrl...
[info]ozarque
2008-01-31 02:14 pm UTC (link)
I hope you're right about that cotton wool over armor over cotton wool....

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[info]nancylebov
2008-01-30 03:26 pm UTC (link)
I'm thinking the country is ready for either a black man or white woman in charge these days.

I keep wondering what might happen if Oprah gets involved in politics.

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[info]haikujaguar
2008-01-30 04:04 pm UTC (link)
I am totally ready to vote for Condi.

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(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-01-30 05:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-01-30 06:02 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to archangelbeth... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:57 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to haikujaguar... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to haikujaguar... - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-01-31 04:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]gardenwaltz, 2008-01-30 05:53 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to gardenwaltz... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:58 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to nancylebov... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:16 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]mrissa
2008-01-30 04:13 pm UTC (link)
I would certainly not be willing to make the decision for any person that they had to put themselves in the sort of line of fire the presidency can be. But I think that Obama and Clinton are both realistic about what they are signing up for. To me it's like astronauts: we grieve when they die. (Oh, how we grieve, whispers the part of my brain that is still 7 years old and watching Challenger.) But we would grieve more if we kept them from achieving great things because we wanted to keep them safe.

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Response to mrissa... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:20 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]the_drifter
2008-01-30 04:56 pm UTC (link)
Thanks very much for introducing this topic. I agree it's a hard one to find a way into.

Reading your example, and thinking about it alongside mine, I think one of the issues we face when speaking to an American audience is our general ignorance about our own history. If you want to use an example that's both emotionally potent and familiar, you generally need to restrict yourself to the events from WWII on. Depending on the context, you might be able to refer to FDR (or to Eleanor) effectively, but even then it'd be iffy. Once you move farther back than that, you're restricted to the "highlights version" of American history -- Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, etc. As for using examples from other countries, you're limited by both unfamiliarity and lack of emotional resonance -- it's a minority of Americans who would have a genuine emotional response to a reference to Tiananmen Square, for instance.

As I'm considering this, I'm wondering if one option is to "build" an example over the course of a long campaign: begin telling stories about it in the early stages, creating curiosity and then raising the profile of the event, and then later using it as a point of comparison or inspiration. It would be tricky to pull off, but it might be better than being forever restricted to JFK, the Holocaust, Nixon, and the Vietnam war protests as fodder for political stories.

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Response to the_drifter... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:27 pm UTC (Expand)
Thoughts
[info]ysabetwordsmith
2008-01-30 05:42 pm UTC (link)
Yep, when I saw the Kennedy endorsement article, it raised a new criterion for presidential candidates: survivability. That's what got me thinking that Obama has a high chance of assassination, Hillary slightly higher than average, and Edwards same as any other president/candidate.

If I knew the running mates for Hillary and Obama, that might make a difference in my voting. Without that crucial data, it doesn't affect my opinion of them against each other -- and I'm voting Democrat as damage control whoever gets the nomination. But I did start a thread on the topic of survivability, on my blog.

Black men who become prominent risk getting beaten down or killed. Same with women, only add rape. (Now there's a whole new nightmare for the Secret Service: protecting Madam President not just from assassination, but kidnapping and rape. Because what better way to throw a monkeywrench into the country's gears?) Society can be very brutal about enforcing its boundaries.

Humans frequently disgust me.

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Re: Thoughts - [info]idiotgrrl, 2008-01-30 06:46 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts - [info]ysabetwordsmith, 2008-01-30 09:43 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts - [info]rosefox, 2008-01-30 09:26 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts - [info]ysabetwordsmith, 2008-01-30 09:40 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts... response to rosefox... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:53 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts... response to ysabetwordsmith... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-30 10:07 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts... response to ysabetwordsmith... - [info]ysabetwordsmith, 2008-01-31 06:55 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts - [info]leora, 2008-01-31 12:01 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Thoughts... response to leora... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:28 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]idiotgrrl
2008-01-30 07:00 pm UTC (link)
Jean Lamb reminds me that in a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket, each one would be the others' assassination insurance, even as Cheney is Bush's insurance.

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(no subject) - [info]starcat_jewel, 2008-01-30 07:09 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to starcat_jewel... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:31 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to idiotgrrl... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:29 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]bearfuz
2008-01-30 07:32 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you, especially with your final sentence above, and I too have fear and anxiety. Long gone are the days when presidents and candidates could interact with the Real People without elaborate staging and security measures; they must now always be separated with Plexiglas and barricades and security people and Secret Service and all kinds of things that remind us of those assassinations and make us more anxious. That's depressing.

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Response to bearfuz... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:33 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]maevele
2008-01-31 12:54 am UTC (link)
Months ago, maybe even a year back, I think you posted after seeing Obama speak, with basically your concern that when we have a public figure who is truly a great speaker with great ideas, they get killed. I remember agreeing with that worry then, and it keeps coming to my mind every time he moves me with a speech.

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(no subject) - [info]6_penny, 2008-01-31 02:14 am UTC (Expand)
I hate being a pessimist - [info]journeyrose, 2008-01-31 04:43 am UTC (Expand)
Re: I hate being a pessimist - [info]maryread, 2008-01-31 05:20 am UTC (Expand)
Re: I hate being a pessimist... response to maryread... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:52 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: I hate being a pessimist... response to maryread... - [info]maryread, 2008-01-31 11:18 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: I hate being a pessimist... response to journeyrose... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:47 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: I hate being a pessimist - [info]6_penny, 2008-01-31 03:56 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to 6_penny... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:44 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to maevele... - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:37 pm UTC (Expand)
"Canadian" is the new N-word
[info]victoriacatlady
2008-01-31 03:58 am UTC (link)
Ozarque, this article is only very indirectly related to the subject of this posting. However, if you weren't aware of it, it's worth taking a look. It seems that among the more bigoted right-wing Americans, "Canadian" is now used for black people in place of the word that they can no longer get away with speaking.

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=261254

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Re: "Canadian" is the new N-word - [info]ozarque, 2008-01-31 02:42 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: "Canadian" is the new N-word - [info]dteleki, 2008-02-01 03:08 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]1950democrat
2008-02-05 05:25 pm UTC (link)
As for assassination ... I too worry seeing both candidates out in crowds where real security would be impossible. But I think Obama is in more danger than Hillary. There has been anti-woman hate going back to Eleanor Roosevelt (and Geraldine Ferraro). HIllary has been hated for ... 20 or 25 years maybe, starting in Arkansas, and was accused of being defacto president in the 90s -- but no assassination attempts. Both Kennedys were killed by foreigners, one a Cuban Communist. A US WASP assassin might be set off by Obama's race, name, and/or Muslim connections; but there are also factions in Asia and Kenya who are upset with him, and are more given to violence.

I hate to see Obama exposed to the danger of campaigning this year when there is little chance of him winning in November. If he runs in 2016 instead, he will have a better chance of winning and hopefully by then the Kenya situation will have settled down.

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