ozarque: Personal note; politics....

ozarque (

ozarque) wrote,
@ 2008-01-09 07:25:00

Personal note; politics....
I have lived to see an African-American man and a hillbilly man win the Iowa caucuses....

I have lived to see a woman win the New Hampshire primary...

Glory hallelujah.

I have also lived to see a whole batch of domineering tv news anchors

who had spent the whole day telling New Hampshire voters what to do...

who had spent fifteen minutes making fun of one of their elders...

forced to spend hours on public display with egg all over their faces.

I enjoyed that tremendously.

(Post a new comment)

idiotgrrl
2008-01-09 01:42 pm UTC (link)

Yup. And when Hillary crying made it seem (at least to me) as if it would be good for her public image because it made her seem more human and understandable (blogger John Xenakis had an ill-advised and mean-spirited playground-style gotcha on that one which is what brought my reaction to mind) -

well, we know the revolution is here.

But I was fairly sure of that anyway, in some dimension. Just not all 3 (as you point out.) Raise a glass of bubbly in toast to the world at hand.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Response to idiotgrrl... ozarque 2008-01-09 02:28 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know about the revolution being here, because revolutions require a lot of staying power. But I'm with you on breaking out the champagne, all the same. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Response to idiotgrrl...

idiotgrrl
2008-01-09 02:38 pm UTC (link)

A lot of staying power? How about 50-odd years in one case and something like 30 in another? Today's kids truly, for the most part, do not see what all the fuss is about. They've seen their share of Obamas in the movies and on TV, and their share of Hillarys in real life - including their cousin in Iraq. That the old folks are all excited over that sort of thing, well, that's old folks for you.

And the kids are turning out in record numbers. Kids - at least on the UNM Campus - are eager for more and more community involvement and (today's catchword) Making a Difference. And not in the service of the usual tired old stuff (Student Government, Raging Grannies Against the War) but what they consider as real.

That's when the revolution is really here. When the kids look back at 50 years of effort and take the results for granted and say "So? What's all the fuss about?"

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	pgdudda 2008-01-09 01:59 pm UTC (link)
	re: egg on faces -- Schadenfreude often induces guilt. Not in this case (at least not for me)... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Response to pgdudda... ozarque 2008-01-09 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	I'm getting old, friend pgdudda; I do not understand what you mean in that comment at all. That's all right, however; I thank you for the comment nonetheless. It's not your fault that I'm befuddled. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Response to pgdudda... pgdudda 2008-01-09 03:18 pm UTC (link)
	'Schadenfreude' is taking pleasure from [perceiving] someone else's misfortune. I don't know if that will explain the comment, but it's a first attempt... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Response to pgdudda... continued... ozarque 2008-01-09 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you. I understand it now. [I think.] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dcseain 2008-01-09 02:02 pm UTC (link)
	It is rather a happy all around, isn't it. :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Response to dcseain... ozarque 2008-01-09 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, yes. And I love your phrase, "a happy all around." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	llahearn 2008-01-09 02:05 pm UTC (link)
	Isn't it wonderful? It's turning into a lovely day.... :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Response to llahearn... ozarque 2008-01-09 02:36 pm UTC (link)
	I do think it's wonderful. There's no way to know what's going to happen next, or how events are going to unfold as they go along -- but we've made it this far. Go, us! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Response to llahearn... llahearn 2008-01-09 02:51 pm UTC (link)
	I'm feeling more hopeful than I have in a long time -- since the 2000 election, to be exact.... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	woggie 2008-01-09 02:13 pm UTC (link)
	I'm sorry, was that actual egg or rhetorical egg? I don't normally watch this stuff, largely because of the boorish displays of the news crews these days... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Response to woggie... ozarque 2008-01-09 02:26 pm UTC (link)
	It was rhetorical egg. (Reply to this)(Parent)

bluegargantua
2008-01-09 02:27 pm UTC (link)

But Obama came a close second and Edwards is vowing to stay in. Michigan is up next, but is being punished for moving their primary up so they "don't count", but as a statewide straw poll, it'll be interesting. I feel like all three candidates are really going to battle it out for awhile.

If the votes split on Feb. 5th (I believe that's when a huge number of states vote), then the democratic convention is going to be a lot of fun. I just wish that the ones I really wanted to vote for in the General Election were...y'know, still running.

On the Republican side...man, what a mess. Which makes me happy, I suppose, but the front runners are complete dark-horses who are running on fumes (they'll get more now, but Mitt and Rudi probably still have tons of cash on hand). Of the Republicans, if I had to have one of them for president, McCain seems the best of a terrible lot. But I'd really kinda like to see Huckabee get the nomination and then just get crushed (preferably by Hillary in this particular scenario). That might be the thing that splinters the extremist Christian grip on politics.

later
Tom

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	davidwilford 2008-01-09 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	FYI, Michigan may have consequences for Republicans, but it won't for Democrats as only Hillary Clinton is currently listed on the Michigan "primary" ballot. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bluegargantua 2008-01-09 02:37 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, I knew that it "didn't count", but I thought they'd still go through the motions. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mbumby
2008-01-09 08:16 pm UTC (link)

Actually there are 4 dems on the Michigan primary, but Hillary is the only one of Obama/Clinton/Edwards, and one of 3 who hasn't yet dropped out.

And one cannot write in one of the other candidates, because unless they signed up to be a write in candidate (which none of them did) those votes will just be thrown away.

The primary will still be held, and I still plan to vote in it. Wasted though that time of mine will likely be.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	idiotgrrl 2008-01-09 02:42 pm UTC (link)
	George Will has discovered that the GOP's Odd Couple alliance between Christianity and Capitalism is falling apart. I'm to lazy to look up the link right now but it was fairly recent. When a Big Tent collapses, the results aren't pretty. Rather like turning on the kitchen light at midnight and watching the bugs run for cover. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Response to bluegargantua...

ozarque
2008-01-09 02:42 pm UTC (link)

Interesting; thanks for the comment. I realize that Huckabee isn't likely to get the nomination, but it means a lot to me -- me as hillbilly -- that he won Iowa. Just to prove that it could be done. There's no way to slice and dice Bill Clinton that would make him fit the specs for "hillbilly," but Huckabee is a different matter. Listening to the tv anchors carrying on about how impossible it was to imagine a president "with a name like Huckabee," and seeing the tabloid headlines about "Gomer Huckabee," really got to me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Response to bluegargantua...

almeda
2008-01-09 07:59 pm UTC (link)

I don't mind his name, and I personally find him very appealing (good conversationalist, fast on his mental feet, good sense of humor, doesn't take himself seriously) ... and then he says something about POLICY (punishing doctors for performing abortions; that stupid 23% across-the-board sales tax instead of income tax proposal, among others) and get this bizarre chill down my back.

If only he espoused policies I didn't think were poisonous I'd vote for him in a hot second without even thinking about it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

lyonesse
2008-01-09 02:35 pm UTC (link)

it sure is being an interesting election, isn't it?

some of the stuff that made me laugh (heard on radio) last night were a couple people angsting about whether they should support edwards, more or less on the grounds that he was at least a white man and therefore stood a better chance in the ultimate election. one ended up voting for hillary, the other for kucinich.

i'm going to vote for kucinich in our primary, but i live in a state so blue we bleed that way ;)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Response to lyonesse...

ozarque
2008-01-09 02:47 pm UTC (link)

It is interesting, yes. For sure. There are times when I catch myself wishing it would be just a little bit less interesting -- because of the way it distracts me from work I should be doing -- but then I remind myself that I am the only one responsible for my lack of self-discipline. Not to mention the fact that having an interesting election for once is unambiguously a blessing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

archangelbeth
2008-01-09 02:47 pm UTC (link)

Literal egg? Really? Link? Please??
[EDIT: Awww, only metaphoric. Darn. ...I didn't watch the TV. Were they hoping for Romny and Edwards?]

I do like that the Democratic candidates have, in third place, the usual Old White Guy. It's the "minority" candidates who are front-running.

(I voted in the Republican primary -- I'm hoping that, for once, both sides might field candidates whom I'd consider half-way acceptable. I must say, though, that while I identify Independent? I'm glad that I never bothered to switch back from whenever it was I got classed as Repub. The amount of physical and phone-spam that I'd have gotten if BOTH sides were trying to bombard me? AUGH!)

Edited at 2008-01-09 04:05 pm UTC

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	foomf 2008-01-09 06:56 pm UTC (link)
	I get both :P And have been registered Republican for what small leverage it's given me for years. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	archangelbeth 2008-01-09 07:30 pm UTC (link)
	Eugh, condolences! You'd think that they wouldn't be spamming you with primaries-spam if you weren't registered for their side -- waste of money till the election itself! (Unless you can switch at the polls easily?) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	foomf 2008-01-09 11:29 pm UTC (link)
	Not in Oregon, it takes some work to switch. What I always find loathesome and illuminating are the fund-raising letters that pretend to be so much more than they really are - describing themselves as "official Republican Party Documents" and as "Polls" when their contents are routinely ignored. (Reply to this)(Parent)

kightp
2008-01-09 02:51 pm UTC (link)

I don't watch television (a practice I heartily recommend during election season, if at no other time), but even NPR had its share of pundits and analysts getting egg on their faces, which I found rather cheering.

The candidate I favor may not survive more than a few primaries, but that's nothing new (I've never voted with the American mainstream); I am, however, thoroughly enjoying the way the electorate seems to be overturning the whole notion of what makes a person "presidential material."

Edited at 2008-01-09 02:54 pm UTC

(Reply to this)

Thoughts

ysabetwordsmith
2008-01-09 04:31 pm UTC (link)

I am amused by your reaction, and share much of it.

I hadn't noticed that Huckabee was a hillbilly though. I tend to pay far more attention to a candidate's political history and current stance than social stuff. Mostly what I've noticed about the Republican candidates is that most of them sound like they would make a lot of salient problems worse. Unfortunately the other candidates who would make the most improvement have approval ratings in the single digits. I'll settle for supporting popular ones who would make things a little better, or at least, not make things much worse.

(Reply to this)

	red_tanya 2008-01-09 04:45 pm UTC (link)
	as a non-Republican Texan, I just wait to see what the other states hand us for candidates. No use getting fussed about it yet - not from over here, anyway. (Reply to this)

ciardhapagan
2008-01-09 05:18 pm UTC (link)

Pardon the slightly impolite tone here, but this was my reaction last night to Hillary winning in New Hampshire and the irritation at the clueless TV pundits having the numbers but not getting why-

The clueless pundits had me between laughing and yelling- for why Clinton won. They got the numbers and who- women voted for her overwhelming, especially women 40 and over (both single and married from all socioeconomic levels. They kept talking about how the 40 and over women had voted for Hillary and that's why she won, but then proceeded to be totally clueless on why. I was yelling "Duh! Morons, ever heard of feminism?" Democratic women 40 and over (like myself- 41 years old) tend to be supportive of feminism, and Hillary has a good record on women's issues, and is a smart and capable politician who got smeared by the press and a few drive bys from Obama and Edwards too. The women of this party are sick and tired of being patronized and ignored (By both the party and by all the media, including so called progressive media like Air America and blogs like Daily Kos) and made their feelings quite well known in New Hampshire.

Oh and they wondered why in Iowa it was "just" the women 60 and older who chose Hillary. Easy- in a caucus, just like in most political public conversations women get shut down and pressured by men. The women 60 and over tend to more likely to be single women- widowed, and more years older than most the men as to not be intimidated by some arrogant "boy" trying to shut them down. In NH it was a primary, thus private vote, alone in the booth forty something women didn't have to deal with any males pressuring her to vote something other than her concious.

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archangelbeth
2008-01-09 07:36 pm UTC (link)

Also, from what I gather from living here, New Hampshire tends to be fairly conservative (though not necessarily in the neoconservative mold made "popular" in the last 8 years or so...), and Clinton probably comes off as the "conservative choice for change." Obama is the "radical choice for change," and Edwards is "who, now?"

I could be way off base, and it might be only the feminism angle that gave her the lead here, mind.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

fibermom
2008-01-09 05:32 pm UTC (link)

I really liked the way Obama got people responding "Yes, we can!" Good old-fashioned enthusiasm is nice to see. And I think it was wise for Clinton, having established that she is smart and competent, to be a little bit cute once or twice (I'm including the "That hurts my feelings!" moment) to help with the "likeability" problem.
As for the Republicans, whenever I look at Rudy, I see him in a Renaissance portrait, like Richelieu or somebody. He seems too conniving and self-interested even for a politician. Romney maintained a condescending smile throughout everyone else's answers in the debate, when he wasn't talking right over them. And McCain came across as mean and petty. So I figure Huckabee might be the least of the evils there. I hope he turns out to be the opponent of the person I vote for.

(Reply to this)

Daily Show comes through again

maggieno
2008-01-09 06:18 pm UTC (link)

Jon Stewart skewered all the snarkiness over Clinton's moment of mistiness. After making a "Say wha?" over the new reporters who asking if she had just blown her chances, the program showed a series of male politicians crying and getting snuffly -- successful male politicians, that it.

Oh well. Gloria Steinem had an interesting column in yesterday's NYTimes (ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/opinion/08steinem.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=steinem&oref=slogin).

Excerpt:

"THE woman in question became a lawyer after some years as a community organizer, married a corporate lawyer and is the mother of two little girls, ages 9 and 6. Herself the daughter of a white American mother and a black African father — in this race-conscious country, she is considered black — she served as a state legislator for eight years, and became an inspirational voice for national unity.

Be honest: Do you think this is the biography of someone who could be elected to the United States Senate? After less than one term there, do you believe she could be a viable candidate to head the most powerful nation on earth?

If you answered no to either question, you’re not alone. Gender is probably the most restricting force in American life, whether the question is who must be in the kitchen or who could be in the White House. This country is way down the list of countries electing women and, according to one study, it polarizes gender roles more than the average democracy. ...."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Daily Show comes through again rosefox 2008-01-09 09:59 pm UTC (link)
	Meanwhile, where are the black women? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Daily Show comes through again

maggieno
2008-01-09 10:20 pm UTC (link)

Right!

The very first presidential election I voted in (Nixon/McCarthy), I wrote in Shirley Chisholm. She's mostly forgotten now...but not as thoroughly as John Anderson. I remember watching Barbara Jordon during the Watergate hearings and, oh, I longed for her to run.

I suspect that we'll see a black male be president before we'll see a female president. I only hope that we won't have to wait the same 50+ years that came between the black men and all the women getting the vote at all.

Still, I have to agree with some commentary on NPR today that Steinem's article seemed a bit too much of something, some approach that felt too old. There was just an air about the article (tone? language?) that left me sighing for all the long years that all such articles have sounded the same. Yes, the problems still abound, but much has changed since the early 70s and methods of persuasion would be wise, I feel, to keep up with the tone and language of the times if they are to have any effect.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

ashnistrike
2008-01-09 07:03 pm UTC (link)

I'm afraid I can't be pleased by Huckabee's initial victory, whatever his background, as he's a religious fanatic and a bigot. I don't like any of the Republican front-runners, but he strikes me as Most Likely to Make Things Even Worse. Possibly tied with Giuliani, who holds some liberal views on specific issues but is also a confirmed fascist.

On the other hand, I'm delighted that I could happily vote for any of the three Democratic front-runners. And yes, the neck-and-neck race between a woman and an African-American gives me hope.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Response to ashnistrike.... ozarque 2008-01-09 07:27 pm UTC (link)
	I understand your objections to Huckabee and am in no way surprised by them, although I've seen nothing that would make me refer to him as a bigot. But since my own ethnic group -- hillbillies -- is the only one it's still acceptable to ridicule openly in the U.S., it meant a lot to me for him to win Iowa. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Response to ashnistrike.... ashnistrike 2008-01-09 08:19 pm UTC (link)
	He's compared homosexuals to necrophiles and pedophiles, and described atheists as intrinsically immoral. Here's one good overview. What scares me is that he's so good at sounding reasonable, most of the time. I do understand your reaction, though. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Response to ashnistrike.... continued...

ozarque
2008-01-10 08:17 pm UTC (link)

I haven't seen the book that's discussed in the overview -- but I can imagine it. And I can imagine poor Huckabee in the hands of a co-author, an editor, an agent, a publicist, and a marketing department. For all the ghastly and bigoted things he may have said in that book [there weren't a lot of quotes to go by in the overview], I apologize. And I thank you for the kind words.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Response to ashnistrike.... continued...

ashnistrike
2008-01-10 09:48 pm UTC (link)

There's certainly no need for you to apologize. I do understand the urge; I often feel like I ought to apologize for Joe Lieberman.

The views expressed in the book are merely stronger versions of the things he says nowadays when he's talking to a sympathetic audience of right-wing religious fundamentalists. Which is too bad, because I think we need more religious politicians talking, as he also does, about the obligation to care for the poor and the environment.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

archangelbeth
2008-01-09 07:39 pm UTC (link)

I sort of lost any interest in Huckabee -- even when I'd been avoiding politics till closer to the primaries -- when I found that Chuck Norris had endorsed him. YouTube comfirms! I mean, okay, he has a sense of humor, cracking Chuck Norris jokes in the commercial... But dear stars, if I wanted World of Warcraft Barrens Chat, I'd be logged on and sitting in the Barrens! *shudder*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kalima62 2008-01-10 12:28 am UTC (link)
	LOL! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	hoosier_red 2008-01-09 07:35 pm UTC (link)
	Hee -- that WAS fun, wasn't it? (Reply to this)

	almeda 2008-01-09 08:03 pm UTC (link)
	A wonderful piece of dark humor: Apparently there's a joke being widely told in Kenya to the effect that a man of the Luo tribe will be President of the US before a man of the Luo tribe will be president of Kenya. (Obama's father was Luo) (Reply to this)

	maevele 2008-01-10 12:03 am UTC (link)
	Just last night I was telling the baby, in wonderment, that by the time she even knows what a President is, we may have a woman or a black man as president. That she'll never have lived through a time where only white men have had a decent chance at leading the country. And then I got all teary-eyed. (Reply to this)

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