I realize that the item I just posted is more about digital cameras than about politics, which makes the title a bad fit. However, the principles remain the same. Suppose the scenario is that you're with your grandmother and she's talking about her opinions with regard to the upcoming presidential election, and your perception is that she's hopelessly confused about both the facts and the implications of those facts. Your impulse then is like the impulse you'd have to step in and give advice if you saw her struggling to make the flash work on her digital camera. And the potential for "conversational ruptures" is similar.
I think it's probably safer to start with the camera scenario and work up to the presidential-candidates scenario. Guidelines for either one -- if we can work them out, which is by no means certain -- are going to be roughly the same in both cases.
| | ozarque (![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif?v=91.7){kind=small} ozarque) wrote, |
December 27 2007, 15:11:14 UTC 4 years ago
I know my kids do not want any advice from me based on the illusion that it's still 1950, 1960, or 1970. Because it isn't. On the other hand, there are times I'd like to be left to do things as they were done 50 years ago because I'm comfortable with them and they suit me well. And on the gripping hand, I most surely wish our national leaders had listened to elders with a vivid memory of the last time the world or the nation was in the sort of mess said leaders have plunged us headlong into.
The world is not a simple lesson plan. The world is a maze to negotiate, with unexpected booby traps and unexpected delights, even as the old folktales always said. (The frog may be a prince - ask Melinda Gates- and the prince may be Bluebeard.)
December 27 2007, 16:54:42 UTC 4 years ago
(...and Niven reference <g>)
December 28 2007, 06:21:35 UTC 4 years ago
Anonymous
December 27 2007, 18:14:30 UTC 4 years ago
A conversation may survive a first imposition of advice... I think most of us are gracious enough as recipients to let it roll off. After that, there's not much left to say about how the gadget works, because now the recipient knows how to work it, one way or another. There's not much left to say about political beliefs either, but that doesn't stop people from continuing to say it, unrequired and irrelevant as it may be for the recipient. That's especially true across age gaps, I think, where each side is sure it has the advantages of awareness and experience.
Meg Umans
Anonymous
December 28 2007, 01:35:51 UTC 4 years ago
I'm afraid I can't envision a polite scenario in which anyone would presume to instruct anyone else in political analysis. The basic premise of such a discussion is couched in contempt.
If I think I have something to offer to a political discussion, I offer it as my opinion -- as an informed and educated adult, my listener may take it or leave it, as they see fit. To offer it as advice is to imply that while the other person may legally be permitted to vote, they are uncomprehending enough that perhaps that right ought to be reconsidered....
I think it's the difference between instruction on subjective and objective topics. There is one correct, indisputable way to set up a digital camera. There are many varying and even contradictory political views and philosophies. It's like comparing apples and elephants....
December 28 2007, 01:37:44 UTC 4 years ago
Eh, that's me, above.
I am not a nonymous, in any way, shape, or form....December 28 2007, 06:58:22 UTC 4 years ago
Even on a point where we agree, I don't think it would be well received if I were to point out a stronger argument for a given point, or something of that nature.
Of course, when the clan is gathered, I don't get to sit at the grown-up table, either; I'm still at the big-cousins table, which is between the kids' table and the grown-up table. There's just not enough room at the grown-up table, as the two generations before me contain 11 people.
This may seem like a non sequitur, but I think it influences how I and the others of may generation are seen in the family, although I don't think it's something anyone does consciously -- there really aren't enough seats in the dining room for everyone.
December 27 2007, 19:15:06 UTC 4 years ago
"Toelken’s stroke occurred on the left side of his brain, wiping out his ability to speak his native English and adopted Navajo languages. However, he retained his fluency in German, apparently stored in a different cabinet in his mind. When the trouble erupted, Toelken’s institutional “white” doctors didn’t know what was wrong because, as he put it, the stroke “took three days to bring me down.” His “white” doctors treated his ailment as being an isolated case and performed upon him “internal” healing, giving him medicine to ingest. They also pronounced upon him only a twenty percent chance for recovery. They didn’t know why the stroke had occurred; their only useful advice was, “Get a one-level house.”"
December 27 2007, 19:17:46 UTC 4 years ago
December 27 2007, 19:47:34 UTC 4 years ago
December 28 2007, 04:24:20 UTC 4 years ago
On the other hand, if we're talking about a person of sound mind who's ignorant about important political issues, my reaction would be determined more by general context than by the person's age.
Not long ago I had an experience like that. I purchased something is a small shop from a man who said, "Did you hear what that Barack Osama said today?" I answered, "You mean Barack Obama? No, what did he say?" The man proceeded to say something that showed he thought that Obama was a Muslim. I had paid for my purchase, but I smiled and politely said, "Oh no, he's a Christian. A member of the United Church of Christ -- you could ask your minister about it. Well, goodbye!"
The man appeared to be in his 60s (about 15 - 20 years older than me). I am confident that I would have responded in exactly the same manner if I thought he was my age, or if I thought he was 20 years younger.
December 28 2007, 11:26:31 UTC 4 years ago
Some things are facts I lived through first-hand (McGovern in 72, Clintons in 92) and see the big picture ... which to others seem to be legends or theories, that they are quite convinced of....
December 28 2007, 13:37:31 UTC 4 years ago
Response to 1950democrat...
I don't know that you muddled the question -- probably the muddling was on my side of the interaction, and I just misunderstood you. Now that you've explained, I can say only that that's a totally different question, and I thank you for the clarification.I do have an answer for that question: I think that the only way to give advice without sounding like someone giving advice is to transform that advice radically -- to shape it as a parable, or a short story, or a painting, or a song, or a poem, or some other form equally different from what we ordinarily recognize as advice.