ozarque ([info]ozarque) wrote,
@ 2007-08-27 14:02:00
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Linguistics; "politeness" studies; recommended link....
Your many comments and responses proposing that the word "polite" means different things in different cultures and subcultures are absolutely correct. One of the struggles in linguistics at the moment is the attempt to find some sort of basic underlying "principles of politeness" that would apply in a more general fashion -- a project that's very hard slogging. [The concern with politeness as a theoretical entity in linguistics is usually considered to have started with Erving Goffman's work on "face" in the 1960s, and with Penelope Brown and Stephen Levinson's work on "politeness theory" in the 1980s.]

If you go to http://pioneer.chula.ac.th/~hkrisada/Politeness/Abstracts.html , you'll find a large set of brief abstracts for linguistics papers on politeness in many different cultural environments, including Internet environments. The abstracts aren't technical, or difficult to read. For example, here are three quick sample quotes...


1. From the abstract for "Politeness in Intercultural Communication: The Case of Sino-English-German Business Negotiations" --

"Western people think in an inductive way, and the individual is emphasised in the Western society, so Brown and Levinson analyse the politeness phenomenon from the point of view of personal face, personal self image; whereas Eastern people think in a deductive way, the harmony of the society is emphasised, every individual plays a role in the society to keep the harmony, the individual is not emphasised. ... Therefore, the universality of Brown and Levinson's politeness theory should be put in doubt when referring to Eastern cultures in intercultural communication..."

2. From the abstract for "Politeness Ideology in Thai Computer-Mediated Communication" --

"Thai users of CMC discourse... become consciously polite, manipulating a wide range of deference marking devices available in the language. The ideology of politeness is evidenced not only by overt forms such as terms of address, pronouns and final particles, but also by the various strategies they perform which characterize Thai culture."

3. From the abstract for "Another Face of Brown & Levinson's FACE: Some Honorific Principles in Japanese" --

"A Japanese speaker may feel awkward or even uncomfortable when he is greeted with a store manager's conventionalized expression 'What can I do for you?' To him, such an offer, welcoming and friendly though it might be in the American cultural context, is an instance of blunt violation of the principle of benevolence which says that the superior is always a benefactor and cannot be indebted."

Recommended.


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[info]nekosensei
2007-08-27 11:30 pm UTC (link)
I'm confused a bit by number three. Can anybody out there explain it to me in another way so I can understand it. I'm curious because I studied Japanese for three years. I asked my husband if this was true since he lived in Japan for two months. He said yes, but couldn't explain it.

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[info]teapot_farm
2007-08-28 08:16 am UTC (link)
If I have this right - the customer is superior to the store manager (this wouldn't automatically hold true in the West, or at least in the UK); if the store manager says "what can I do for you?", this implies that the store manager is offering a favour (this is at least partly because it's the store manager doing the offering, rather than the customer telling the manager that they want X). If the store manager is offering a favour, then as soon as the customer accepts, he owes a favour back to the store manager (this is part of the reciprocal gift-giving rules). This may seem wrong to the customer, because "the superior is always a benefactor and cannot be indebted", and in this situation, the customer is the superior. I think the extension of this is that the store manager is in the wrong, and should have waited until the customer made his/her wishes known, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

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Response to teapot_farm...
[info]ozarque
2007-08-30 04:08 pm UTC (link)
You're absolutely right about the fact that the "What can I do for you?" line, if taken seriously by the customer, would be the starting gun for the obligatory gift-giving sequence, and that would be very awkward. I have found myself involved in several of those sequences over the years, and it has always been extremely complicated. However, I suspect that the store manager -- who is in charge of the store, its employees, and its policies -- would, in Japan, have the higher rank in this scenario.

The problem here is the difficulty a Japanese customer has knowing what to say and do when that "What can I do for you?" line is used by a store manager whose native language is English, in England or the U.S or another English-speaking country. Japanese customers would know that they didn't have to worry about the exchange-of-gifts rules, because they'd know the store manager wouldn't be aware of those rules. But they'd still be in a bind, because a superior would be offering to do something for them, out of nowhere, and there would be nothing appropriate for them to say back.

I may be wrong about this; if so, I'd be pleased to have those of you more familiar with Japanese cultural practices correct my error.

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Re: Response to teapot_farm...
[info]teapot_farm
2007-08-30 06:43 pm UTC (link)
If you ever get to confirm the superiority ranking, please let me know, I'd be most interested (and if I find out, I will return the favour)

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[info]countrycousin
2007-08-28 02:44 am UTC (link)
Also confused by 3 (and completely untutored in Japanese). If the store manager instead said (as some do) "How may I serve you", would that improve the start of dialog? We would tend to regard the two phrases as nearly synonymous, but, literally, they are not.

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[info]teapot_farm
2007-08-28 08:19 am UTC (link)
I *think* that changing the wording would not help, because the manager is still forcibly offering a favour, which puts the customer in a position where they can either accept and be indebted to return a favour, or not accept and then be unable to shop. This is a socially graceless thing for the manager to do. I suspect the correct action for the manager is along the lines of expressing pleasure at the presence of the customer in the store, and then waiting to pick up on any hints as to which items the customer is interested in - but never making a direct offer of action. I'm not at all sure about that though, and would very much like to know how it would actually work out.

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Response to countrycousin...
[info]ozarque
2007-08-30 04:11 pm UTC (link)
If I'm right that in Japan the store manager would be a superior by default [and I may not be -- this isn't my field], "How may I serve you?" would put the customer in the same sort of communication bind as "What can I do for you?" There'd be nothing appropriate to say back.

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Re: Response to countrycousin...
[info]countrycousin
2007-08-30 06:18 pm UTC (link)
Ah, thank you. I had confused the assumed states of superiority.

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(Anonymous)
2007-08-28 05:51 am UTC (link)
Try looking at #3 the other way around: those who have the power to give... have power. Those who *take* the power to give are implying that the intended recipient is inferior.

Meg Umans

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