Eldering, and a lexical canyon....
hilleviw and mamadeb have said in comments on my "sea change" post that they are disconcerted when I characterize myself as a Little Old Lady. They're willing to accept the idea that I'm little, since anyone can look at me and see that that is true; they are kind and courteous enough to accept my claim that I'm a lady; but they're disconcerted about my saying that I'm old. And I've been thinking about that, and thinking that it's a good subject for a post, and having a hard time getting that post written.

There is of course the obvious fact that the mainstream Anglo culture in the U.S. is a youth-worshipping culture, where people think that they're complimenting you -- especially if you're a woman -- when they say things like "My goodness, you don't look sixty!" [or fifty, or forty, or whatever] and "Good heavens, you certainly don't look old enough to be a grandmother!" I've known many men, some of them my kin, who've had a terrible time dealing with their fiftieth birthday. And when I was on book tour for The Grandmother Principles, I was shocked to discover that many of the women in my audiences had looking younger than their daughters and daughters-in-law as a primary goal. All of that is familiar now; it isn't exactly what I wanted to write about in this post, and I'm certain that it isn't what inspired the comments from hilleviw and mamadeb.

As recently as a year ago, I could truthfully say that although I understood intellectually that I was old -- 70 certainly qualifies as old -- I didn't feel old. I felt much the same way I'd felt at 40 and 50, and was always startled (and annoyed) when I discovered that I got tired more quickly than I did at 40 and 50. As recently as a year ago, I was surprised when I looked in a mirror and saw an old woman looking back at me, because as long as I couldn't see myself my mental image of Me was a woman of maybe 45 or 46.

That's not true for me any more. Now, a few months shy of being 71, I feel old, and when I see myself in a mirror I recognize myself immediately as Me. I don't have any Nora Ephron moments of fretting over that and hating my neck, but I no longer think "My goodness, who's that?", the way I did a year ago. It distresses me that I've lost three-fourths of my hair, because the thought of having to fool about with a wig is ghastly and I don't want to have to bother with any such nonsense, but I don't hate my hair. Many trees lose most or all of their leaves in the autumn; many old ladies lose most or all of their hair in the autumn; if I end up having to wear a wig I'll no doubt survive that. But that's not what I really wanted to write about here either.

What I wanted to do was explain clearly and concisely what it is to feel old. What it's like. How it feels. And to my chagrin, given that I'm supposed to be a competent writer and a trained linguist, I've discovered that I'm not able to do that. There doesn't seem to be any suitable English vocabulary that will serve that purpose. It's not just a lexical gap, it's a lexical canyon, and I don't seem to be able to write my way across it.

Maybe it's just not something I can do in prose? That's possible. Maybe I haven't felt old long enough to understand it properly and thoroughly; maybe I'm still too new at this? That's possible. Maybe a youth-worshipping culture's language is genuinely unsuitable for expressing the perceptions that go with being old? That's also possible.

And maybe it's something else entirely, that just hasn't occurred to me but will perhaps occur to you. If so, I am, as always, listening with my full attention.

(Post a new comment)

elorie 2007-07-31 03:14 pm UTC (link)

I recommend head scarves. You can get them cheap in a wide variety of colors and styles from places like http://www.modestclothing.com/ they are comfy and adjustible to the weather, and they are much easier and more comfortable than wigs. People may mistake you for an Orthodox Jew, a Muslim, a cancer patient, or a hippie, though. I don't consider that a downside, but I realize not everyone takes as much joy in confounding people's expectations as I do. At the least, you could get one or two and wear them and see if you like them while getting people used to the idea, for a small expenditure of money. Wigs are spendy and if you buy one and discover you hate it, you have a very, very expensive dust mop. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - elorie, 2007-07-31 03:15 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - mamadeb, 2007-07-31 03:33 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - elorie, 2007-07-31 04:01 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - mamadeb, 2007-08-02 03:43 pm UTC (Expand)

lillibet 2007-07-31 03:14 pm UTC (link)

Four perspectives occur to me: - Feeling old is a relative phenomenon as we judge ourselves against those around us. At some point it begins to be the case that most of the people we ever see are significantly younger than we are and that makes us feel old. - Feeling old is a case of vector. In our younger lives we are extremely forward-looking and life is all about what will happen in the future. But at some point, while we may continue to look forward to what is yet to come, there is a sense that our lives are, to a great extent, in the past. - Feeling old is a physical phenomenon. Through much of our lives, we experience illness and injury and exhaustion as temporary conditions and expect to get better with enough sleep, enough time, the right medicine, a better mattress, etc. At some point we begin to accept that we may never feel better. - Feeling old is a matter of how we are treated. My mother began to complain around seventy that younger people had stopped talking to her, as if she were no longer capable of having a conversation or interested in doing so. Younger people show a deference and discomfort in our presence that reinforces the idea of ourselves as old. I don't know which of these perspectives or any other shifted for you recently, but I thought starting a list might help to think about it. Old is a lot like fat. How you perceive yourself depends a lot on who you see around you and what their attitudes toward you are. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - kelsied, 2007-07-31 08:20 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - houseboatonstyx, 2007-07-31 08:55 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Old as a physical phenomenon - msminlr, 2007-07-31 09:56 pm UTC (Expand)

mamadeb 2007-07-31 03:23 pm UTC (link)

That is something I can understand. My mother-in-law is about your age. Up until three or four years ago, she was extremely active. In the winter, when they were in the city (NYC), she took several classes a week - she started learning Hebrew in her fifties - she ran food and clothing drives in her synagogue, and as a true New Yorker, she walked everywhere, often miles a day. In summer, which they spend in the country, she grew plots of flowers and vegetables, helped fill the local food bank and taught classes in their summer synagogue. She's a big woman and has always been so, but she trained as a dancer, and her movements were easy and graceful. She was actually comfortable lying on the floor and had no problems getting to her feet. There were plenty of indications she'd be like that for years to come. Then she fell and broke her upper arm. She needed surgery for it to heal, and because her balance changed, she developed sciatica. It became painful to maintain any position for any length of time, and although her arm has healed as much as it can, she still has the other pain. She's had to cut her classes down to one a week; she takes buses where she used to walk and while she still runs clothing and food drives, she depends on her young volunteers to do all the actual work now. In the country, her gardening is now solely in waist-high pots instead in the ground. Plus, her vision has been going, so she no longer drives even in the country and is dependent on her 86 year old husband. Her eyesight is currently improving, thank God, but she'll never drive again. We're happy she can read - the computer has been a godsend, since she can adjust the print to any size and we've put high-contrast, large-sized letters on her keyboard. They're already thinking about selling the country house and giving us the car. And her movements have lost a lot of grace, and there is another change I can't put my finger on, except to say that she's become "old". And it hurts to see. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - voxwoman, 2007-07-31 08:55 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - mamadeb, 2007-07-31 09:01 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - voxwoman, 2007-07-31 09:44 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - houseboatonstyx, 2007-07-31 09:12 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - voxwoman, 2007-07-31 09:36 pm UTC (Expand)

	idiotgrrl 2007-07-31 03:25 pm UTC (link)
	For the hair - old women used to wear some sort of turban. You might experiment with that. I've had wigs and they are horrible to keep up. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - msminlr, 2007-07-31 10:00 pm UTC (Expand)

	Getting old idiotgrrl 2007-07-31 03:31 pm UTC (link)
	It has happened to me over the past 3 years. One year I feel as if I'm in late middle age, and through a graceful and almost imperceptible process, I became old - it felt like the proper definition so I accepted it and still do. I am 68 and a half. For what it's worth. (Reply to this)

queenmaggie 2007-07-31 03:32 pm UTC (link)

On a totally different take, it occurs to me that it may not be the concept of being old that disturbs...but the gestalt implied by the phrase "little old lady" (this is just theory, mind you) It seems to me that the phrase implies a certain stereotype: small, wizened, rocking away in a chair by the fireside with knitting and a shawl, slightly befuddled, answering all questions with a "That's nice, dear" ... and the contrast with our perceptions of Suzette as a vital and inquiring elder don't match: but people have a hard time, sometimes, articulating where the mismatch appears, so they settle on the vaguest word in the phrasing. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - haikujaguar, 2007-07-31 03:47 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - nancylebov, 2007-07-31 04:22 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - haikujaguar, 2007-07-31 04:25 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - houseboatonstyx, 2007-07-31 06:30 pm UTC (Expand)

hilleviw 2007-07-31 03:45 pm UTC (link)

I feel I ought to clarify that I don't think of old in the least bit pejoratively. I'm 43, and I've earned every trace of maturity I display. Wouldn't trade it in for any amount of callow, thank you kindly. It's just...old somehow does suggest the end of the line, that the doing is done, and a phase of winding things up. I see it in presidents leaving office, no matter their ages, for example. I don't usually see it in my dad (who will be 71 in October), but I did when my gramma died this spring. He just looked bone tired, and everything he did was more effortful than it had been before. Not that he can't do anything he sets his mind to, it's just more work. And there's a quality of weariness which hasn't left him. Well anyway, I don't - at all - get the sense from you that the doing is done. On the contrary, your occasional lists of projects pending simply astonish me. If you were confining yourself to a chair, settling down to your crochet projects and an occasional gossip about the neighborhood, I might find it easier to accept that you perceive yourself as winding things down. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - kelsied, 2007-07-31 08:28 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - kelsied, 2007-07-31 08:30 pm UTC (Expand)

mrissa 2007-07-31 03:45 pm UTC (link)

I think it's easier when you've seen it from the outside and have a reference point. If you don't know any old people, or if the old people you know have been desperately trying to avoid any indications of being old, it might be hard to figure out when it happens, what it means. I've seen it from the outside. My grandparents were not old at 71 and 75 (respectively). They were fairly clearly late-middle-aged in their bodily behaviors/capabilities/feelings. But by the time they were 73 and 77, something had shifted; they were old people. They are still vigorous and healthy old people, positive and upbeat and interested in the world, but they are indeed old people. I don't know how it feels, but I know what you mean, so I know better than to protest that someone isn't really old when really she is, and it's not a bad thing. (Reply to this)

Accomplished naturalfractual 2007-07-31 03:57 pm UTC (link)

My mother is 77 and just now slowing down - that is what distresses her. I remember when she was in her 30's and being mentored by a brilliant woman in her 80's. No matter my mother's apprearance (or mine for that matter) I see a woman who has raised her family, grown up before my eyes and is still a force to be reackoned with. Do what makes YOU feel better about your appearance, but I have learned that those who love you don't really see that, those who love you see who you really are. It is very difficult to describe yourself. Age means experience, pain, the profound sense of mortality and change, a growing awareness that things cannot always stay as they are and now that you have a better appreciation of life, the desire for continuance. I enjoy your entries. I have learned from you, there is a depth to you that I do not often find in people. Language, for all that you want it to be concise, rarely is. But, Lady, you are noble in your effort to be CLEAR, for there to be no misunderstanding your meaning. (Reply to this)

rabidsamfan 2007-07-31 04:11 pm UTC (link)

My mom, since the heart surgery has become old. For her it manifests in wanting more naps in the daytime and being awake half the night. In a boundless sense of patience with my 8 and a half year old nephew that still pulls him up short when he needs a limit. (He obeys her better than anyone, listens to what she says the first time she says it, and believe me, it's good for both of them.) Being old for my mom means discarding some of the things she's kept, or passing them along to others. It means telling stories about pictures, and books, and things, that maybe we've heard before, but we're listening to more carefully, knowing that this time we might have to be the one who carries them to the next generation. It means losing her regular glasses and using the spares fairly regularly. It means giving up driving at night, and not really missing it, either. There are other joys. It's not all negative, not by any means, and watching her enjoy being old makes me look forward to trying it. (Reply to this)

On Getting Old nrc_eu 2007-07-31 04:21 pm UTC (link)

Ahh … feeling old. Now that is a subject I’ve just met up close and personal. I’ve gradually become aware that every individual experience of “old” is unique. Some feel aches and pains early, possibly starting in their 40s or 50s. For them, learning to feel old is a gradual process to which some learn to adapt with a degree of grace. Take, for instance, my mother. She developed osteoarthritis early. By the time she was 40 years old, it had destroyed the cartilage in both knees, and she spent the next 20 years walking bone-on-bone. Then doctors perfected knee replacement surgery, and she had both of them replaced. She spent the rest of her life virtually without pain. The only reason I bring this bit of personal history forward is to back up my theory of individual experience. Because my mother had to face constant pain early in her life, she learned to adapt and she seldom complained. She somehow plowed through the pain. That may not be every person’s experience in this kind of situation, but I watched her go through that and have heartfelt respect for the way she handled that part of her life. Myself, until three years ago, I’d lived virtually pain-free. That’s ignoring the child-bearing years. All these years I’ve been able to physically do just about anything I wanted to do, some of it physically heavy work. Then three years ago I started having periods of stiffness and pain in one knee. To make a long story short, the x-ray and MRI showed good bone density and good cartilage between the joints. That translates to simple osteoarthritis and “no good reason for that knee to be hurting you that bad.” Translated: must all be in your head. That doesn’t help my frame of mind at all. I’m not nearly as graceful with this “getting old” business as was my mother. I grumble … and think longing thoughts about life just four short years ago. Anyway, that's my bit of personal experience insight. Oh, and I'm a bit younger but not much: 67-1/2 (Reply to this)

dcseain 2007-07-31 04:28 pm UTC (link)

Having watched my great-grandparents, my grandparents, as well as friends, become old, i've found that spending time with them does a lot explain what it means to be old. My mother's father's mother was about 60 years older than me. When i was about 10, she, an uncle, his wife, my sister, and i went to the Cleveland Zoo. The Cleveland Zoo is hilly, to the point that there are no exhibits on the hills, and they run golf cart trains up the hills. It began to rain, just as all of us but for grandma were on the train. She'd just begun to step into the rear as the driver pulled away, leaving her behind. She shrugged, and then skipped up the hill behind us, singing, in the rain. Seven years, later, she had a stroke, and descended into Alzheimer's. Her last 18 months were spent in an infinite loop, mentally reliving ca 1922 to ca 1938. When visiting, she acknowledged that someone was there, but would take you as someone else, and tell you about her life then. I missed the care-free, silly grandmother who had taught kindergarten for 40 years, but on the other hand, it was really interesting to hear from her details about what other family members had alluded. A different great grandmother made 28 quilts between age 86 and 92, and was fully functional physically, if more slowly than when she was younger, and mentally, up until her death a few weeks before her 100th birthday. So, yes, there are aches, pains, and medical issues. There can be mobility issues, memory issues, and myriad other problems. But the general lesson i've learned from the elders i've known through the years are: maintain social interactions; do as much as you can for yourself, and do not be afraid to ask for help when you need it; be content with your lot, as working with it is much easier than struggling against it; your family can do some, but not everything for you, and assisted living apartments/facilities are a nice way to maintain independence and social network, while still interacting with family and having access to assistance one may need. There's more, i'm sure, but that's all that comes to mind now. Thank you for writing about eldering issues; it's something we all must understand, and most all will personally face eventually. (Reply to this)

archangelbeth 2007-07-31 04:29 pm UTC (link)

Heh. The one that gets me is "little," actually. I mean, okay, your icon is only at most 100 pixels high, but my mental image of you is probably at least my height (five foot seven -- anna half if I stand up straight)... But then, I constantly get cognitive dissonance upon realizing that I am no longer The Precocious Kid, and that there are other Kids around, and even other people I assume are more "grown up" than I am, and thus older... This especially happens online. So I am quite willing to accept "older than me" from others. O:> On the other hand, when the door-to-door magazine salesman said, "Can you get your mom or dad?"... He pretty well started the spiel at a negative. No, I don't find it flattering to be taken for a pre-teen unable to make financial decisions. Especially when I've been dealing with my kid prior to that. (And especially when I'd been leading the World of Warcraft family group, a position of some amount of responsibility within the game; you address the tank and party-leader politely, dangit. She's the one out there being whacked on by the demon horses and trying to get them to stop trampling the mage!) (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to archangelbeth... - ozarque, 2007-08-01 06:15 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Response to archangelbeth... - archangelbeth, 2007-08-01 07:25 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Response to archangelbeth... - victoriacatlady, 2007-08-02 10:40 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Response to archangelbeth... - archangelbeth, 2007-08-03 07:35 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - firebyrd, 2007-08-03 03:06 am UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - almeda, 2007-08-03 11:25 am UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - firebyrd, 2007-08-03 11:31 am UTC (Expand)

	dpolicar 2007-07-31 04:57 pm UTC (link)
	So, everything substantive I was going to say was said, and better, by others, but I simply have to publicly appreciate the beauty of It distresses me that I've lost three-fourths of my hair. That the pun is likely unintentional simply adds to its beauty. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to dpolicar... - ozarque, 2007-07-31 06:00 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Response to dpolicar... - dpolicar, 2007-07-31 07:01 pm UTC (Expand)

kightp 2007-07-31 05:05 pm UTC (link)

I'm not quite 60 yet, but having many of the same reactions you describe to the "oh, you're not OLD!" comments. Lately, I've taken to asking "hey, what's wrong with `old'?" It provokes some interesting conversations, usually quite revealing of people's stereotypes. More than you, perhaps, I'm of a generation that has a huge investment in Youth; the musicians of my 20s sang "May you stay forever young" and "I hope I die before I get old," and far too many of us internalized that. And yet, we grow old. The fact that some of us do it with tie-dye and rock and roll rather than doubleknit polyester and Lawrence Welkdoesn't change that; I watched the recent PBS special honoring musicial Paul Simon and all through it kept having "oh, my, they're getting old, too!" moments. I still feel occasional moments of wistful regret about certain changes; I *do* fret about my neck, but if I could reclaim any youthful body parts, it would be my young knees (so much more useful than perky breasts or a firm jawline). But mostly, I'm settling into "old" like a comfortable, well-worn sweater. This is all as it should be, and it doesn't mean I'm done being useful or productive or engaged with the world. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - voxwoman, 2007-07-31 09:05 pm UTC (Expand)

pocketnaomi 2007-07-31 05:06 pm UTC (link)

Siegfried Sassoon is mostly known as one of the WWI poets, and in his youth he certainly was, but he survived the war and I am told that he had a second stage of good work in old age, writing speciically about aging. I haven't read that set of his work yet, but it's the only case I know about of a poet being noted particularly for writing about getting, and being, old, and now you've got me curious, so I'm going to go look it up. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - pocketnaomi, 2007-07-31 05:08 pm UTC (Expand)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2007-07-31 05:39 pm UTC (Expand)

(Anonymous) 2007-07-31 05:19 pm UTC (link)

(Michael Farris) "Maybe a youth-worshipping culture's language is genuinely unsuitable for expressing the perceptions that go with being old? That's also possible" Perhaps you (or someone else with sufficient knowledge of the language) could look at the word/concept generating power of Laadan in this regard? Or alternately, some simple semantic feature analysis with +/- features. Assuming you haven't done either of those things (and could find the time, which is always difficult) one or both might help you verbalize things. (Reply to this)

(Anonymous) 2007-07-31 05:36 pm UTC (link)

How it feels physically: your muscles think it over before they obey you. Your joints aren't willing to put themselves out. You're less sure of your bones. You can't turn your head as far. You've gained weight, or lost weight, but anyway your body looks and acts more different than you can incorporate. You pee more often. You have less breath and less energy. You know in advance "I can't do that", and it feels awful to say so to a young person who wants to have a good time with you. It's the knowing that, what I can no longer to, that defines "old" for me. Meg Umans (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - lyonesse, 2007-07-31 06:10 pm UTC (Expand)

lyonesse 2007-07-31 05:54 pm UTC (link)

hm. i have a hard time thinking of you as "old" b/c by my family's standards you're not. i was just heartbroken by the loss of a favorite great-aunt at 95; my grandma's fine at 99; mom and dad (late 70's and 80, iirc) are as vital as one can expect of people with basically sedentary lifestyles. that said, perhaps you might find inspiration in the works of other people who broke through silences around various culturally unspeakable issues -- ani difranco, w.e.b. dubois, malcolm x, simone de bouvier, samuel r delany, jonathan cole .... ? (Reply to this)

nolly 2007-07-31 06:26 pm UTC (link)

I started to respond that perhaps part of the disconnect is that your writing doesn't sound/feel old. But I can't figure out what old writing would be like. So then I considered writing as ageless, but that's not quite right, either; I can often detect a young writir fairly accurately, but it has more to do with experience and attitude than actual age. I was once very startled to find that the person who was writing like a 15 year old on one of my mailing lists was actually 60ish (+/- 5 years, I'd guess). I think there is something here, related to only knowing you through your words, but I can't find the right way to put it. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to nolly... - ozarque, 2007-08-01 06:16 pm UTC (Expand)

sighkey 2007-07-31 06:59 pm UTC (link)

There are 2 elders left in my family, both women. Both would take you to task about thinking of yourself as old. From their perspective (89 and 82) not quite 71 does not seem old. Both are 'little old ladies', the elder of the two being very little indeed and she (my aunt) is now feeling old and does tend to refer to herself as 'the dotty little old lady' whenever she does something that she considers foolish. For most of her life she has had an extraordinary memory and one of the things she finds most difficult to deal with is the memory decline that often accompanies ageing. (It probably wouldn't worry me if I'm fortunate enough to get to that age 'cos my memory isn't that wonderful even now so I wouldn't notice any difference) Both comment however on how kind they find the 'young people' (which by their definitions would be any one younger than about 75)In fact, my mother (the 82 year old) discovered that '82' could be a magic number. She and my brother were standed in a small township due to flooding a couple of nights ago and all accommodation was taken. When the local policeman discovered that Mum was 82 years old he found her (and my brother) a proper bed with one of the local residents rather than letting her sleep on the mattresses on the floor of the local RSA hall. (Reply to this)

leora 2007-07-31 07:46 pm UTC (link)

I feel weird about the idea of "old" because I've felt old since I was six, even though I realized at the time that that was ludicrous. But something that makes me feel old within a community is realizing how much of the things I remember are things that other people weren't there for. It provokes a desire to explain how things came to be the way they are, because understanding that will help people understand how to change them sensibly (because over time changes will need to be made to deal with new issues, but you need to know the purpose of why things are done the way they are done to keep the important bits when you change things). There's a sense that those who came before me aren't here anymore, and when I go, what I forget to mention will be lost. And that the things that affected me profoundly will simply be stories to others. They will lose a lot of their impact. But that these people will also see all sorts of things after me and will have their own major events to deal with. (Reply to this)

aenodia 2007-07-31 08:49 pm UTC (link)

I wonder if it's possible to write about being old without writing about the infirmities of age. Our vision changes so driving at night is more difficult, our hearing diminishes to the point where we ask people to repeat what they said. I gain more wrinkles every year and lose more hair. I am not sure where the line is between middle age and old. I call myself old but don't really believe myself just yet. I don't think physical signs of aging are synonymous with being old but they may be the most common way of writing about old people. (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - babalon_it, 2007-07-31 08:54 pm UTC (Expand)

babalon_it 2007-07-31 08:52 pm UTC (link)

I have gone in and out of feeling "old" for most of my life. I felt old at 33 - fat, old and useless. Now, at 44, I feel vital and alive. Physical inability can make a huge difference in how one feels. It isn't that old is a bad thing. I have never been good at figuring out how old anyone is - I can usually tell if they're prepubescent, teens or early twenties, but somewhere around early twenties I lose the ability to distinguish whether someone is 20, 50, or 70. Unless they are obviously decrepit, I basically consider them "about my age" and have since I was in my 20s. I know that I have met many men and women who have lived "old" for me in such a way to make it a state that I look forward to. For me, the difference is "elder" vs "old". Elder or elderly is someone who has lived long and has much experience of life. Old, to me, is someone who is just waiting to die. I felt old, and just waiting to die, at 33. Now, I look forward to being an elder. OTOH - "little old lady" doesn't have the connotation of "old" to me. ;-) I don't associate the phrase with "old" but with elder. Don't know why. I don't dissociate "in a rocking chair and knitting" and "swatting someone with a broom" - I have too many friends who knit, at various ages (including some men). And I can easily imagine Suzette being a little old lady, while fully expecting her to be quite capable of swatting the young'uns with a broom for getting out of line (which is part of my association with little old lady) (Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - kelsied, 2007-08-01 02:54 pm UTC (Expand)

tcepsa 2007-07-31 09:15 pm UTC (link)

Maybe it's just not something I can do in prose? That's possible. Maybe I haven't felt old long enough to understand it properly and thoroughly; maybe I'm still too new at this? That's possible. Maybe a youth-worshipping culture's language is genuinely unsuitable for expressing the perceptions that go with being old? That's also possible. If not prose, then how about poetry? I find that free verse often works well for me, especially when I am attempting to describe something that I cannot seem to manage in prose--which, perhaps not coincidentally, usually happens when I am trying to express what something feels like. I do not know how well this form would work for actually communicating the experience to other people at large, but it seems to have worked reasonably well with the few friends with whom I have tried it. Aside from that, it definitely works well for me as a mnemonic; I can almost always look back at something that I have written in that form and say, "Oh yes, I remember what that felt like!" (Reply to this)

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