ozarque ([info]ozarque) wrote,
@ 2007-07-01 08:55:00
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Writing science fiction; interview...
August 11, 2083

"Interview with Jemalia St. Gareth," conducted by CNN-Prime's Malcolm Ndebe
Protests at cyberdragon springtime fashion show

CNN-Prime:
Were you surprised by the riot that disrupted your spring show this year, Jemalia?

Jemalia St. Gareth:
Well, in the first place I wouldn't call maybe fifty demonstrators a riot, Malcolm. And in the second place, I wouldn't agree that they "disrupted" my show; the fedrobots had them all nicely stunned and netted and hauled away in ten minutes flat. And in the third place -- to answer the legitimate part of your question -- no, I wasn't surprised. I was sorry, but not surprised.

CNN-Prime:
Sorry, but not surprised... Could you elaborate on that?

St. Gareth:
That group of demonstrators -- the Humankinders, I mean -- has genuinely good intentions; they mean well. They just don't understand the real world.

CNN-Prime:
You're talking about this crazy campaign of theirs for a federal law making it illegal to own more than one cyberdragon?

St. Gareth:
Yes. It's not just craziness, though -- it's ignorance. It's stupidity. They claim they're working to benefit humankind and preserve this world, and yet they're blind to the fact that the more dragons a family has the better it is for all of us, and for the planet. A family can have ten dragons, or twenty dragons .... dragons use almost no resources at all. Children, on the other hand, they have to have water and food and clothing--

CNN-Prime:
Hey, Jemalia -- dragons have to have clothes! Let's not forget that you make a very good living designing those clothes!

St. Gareth:
But dragons don't outgrow their clothes, Malcolm. You buy one of my outfits, you have something that will last you years and years. It's not like that with kids; you have to keep buying more and more clothes all the time. And dragons, unlike children, don't have to be educated, they don't get sick--

CNN-Prime:
They don't die.

St. Gareth:
Right. They don't die. As for laws that would tell people what they can buy with their own money -- that is not the American way! Say you have a blue dragon; you'll want a pair of blue ones. Or you'll want one in every color .... a bronze, a scarlet, a green, a white ... maybe whatever is the newest color. It's like any other collection; you always want just one more. You know! And that's good. Good for the country, good for the economy ... I mean, think about what it was like even thirty years ago -- families with two kids, sometimes three kids, and a dog or a cat... all eating and drinking and needing medical care... There's no way we could have gone on like that!

CNN-Prime:
Of course, we want to remind our viewers that a family does need to have one child, at some point. To carry on the family names.

St. Gareth:
Of course. At some point.

CNN-Prime:
My wife and I... We have triplets. Three bronzes; perfectly matched.

St. Gareth:
And you love them with all your heart. I can hear it in your voice, how you love them.

CNN-Prime:
Oh, god... We love them so much; neither of us had any idea we were going to love them so much...

St. Gareth:
I know just what you mean! It's incredible! But of course you don't love them as much as you will love your child when the time comes to have one of those.

CNN-Prime:
Oh -- of course not! When the time comes.


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[info]serpentrose
2007-07-01 03:12 pm UTC (link)
This is an awesome story.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Response to serpentrose...
[info]ozarque
2007-07-01 05:31 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ethesis
2007-07-04 01:45 pm UTC (link)
That is what I thought, my first response to reading this was "wow, just wow."

So believable.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sukinova
2007-07-01 03:17 pm UTC (link)
What frightens me (in a way) is that although I know it's future fictional, I can picture it taking place.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Response to sukinova...
[info]ozarque
2007-07-01 05:32 pm UTC (link)
Yes. Especially with the current robotics developments in Japan...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]elfwreck
2007-07-01 04:24 pm UTC (link)
I'm fascinated by the idea of "cyberdragons" that have to wear clothes, but take almost no resources. Makes me want to know more about the dragons.

And I get the feeling that the Humankinders aren't so much wanting a limit on the number of dragons, but a removal of limits on the number of children--and are attempting to limit dragons as a way to make that point.

I'm baffled at the idea that "family name" is the reason for having a child, rather than "continuation of the species." Although I'm not sure how to turn "continuation of the species" into a media phrase that sounds like "good American family values." I also want to know how they decided on one instead of two (and how is that going to continue the family names, when that kid marries and has a child--are the new children going to have all four grandparents' names?), and whether there's some contigency to change it to two children/family when the population drops low enough.

(My children don't have my last name. Nor my husband's. Family of four; four different last names. We drive the school system buggy.)

Edit note:
Jemalia St. Gareth:
...
CNN-Prime:
Hey, Gemalia
-----
Did he mispronounce her name, or was that a typo?

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Partial response to elfwreck...
[info]ozarque
2007-07-01 04:31 pm UTC (link)
It was a typo; thanks for catching it for me!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Response to eflwreck...
[info]ozarque
2007-07-01 05:38 pm UTC (link)
I'd rather leave most of your questions [excellent questions] open for now, so that readers can construct their own answers. But I can answer one of them. I said "family names" specifically so that it wouldn't be assumed that having a child would mean only the continuation of the father's family name. I'm hypothesizing that in this future U.S. culture a system will have been worked out for choosing among the various family names and assigning one or more of them to the child.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]starcat_jewel, 2007-07-01 06:10 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]ataniell93, 2007-07-01 09:01 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]starcat_jewel, 2007-07-01 11:15 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]ataniell93, 2007-07-01 11:34 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]sculpin, 2007-07-02 03:58 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]ladyvorkosigan, 2007-07-01 09:39 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]ataniell93, 2007-07-01 11:37 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]elfwreck, 2007-07-02 04:15 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]ladyvorkosigan, 2007-07-03 11:49 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]janetmiles, 2007-07-06 07:37 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]elfwreck, 2007-07-01 06:16 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]archangelbeth, 2007-07-01 11:00 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to eflwreck... - [info]dcseain, 2007-07-05 03:55 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]babalon_it
2007-07-01 05:15 pm UTC (link)
well done!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Response to babalon_it...
[info]ozarque
2007-07-01 05:39 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]elynne
2007-07-01 09:23 pm UTC (link)
I don't want a child, but I very very much want a dragon. o.O I do realize that I'm perhaps a bit, uh, unusual in this respect...

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ataniell93
2007-07-01 11:44 pm UTC (link)
Hee, not in this crowd. But I'm not sure I'd want to have more than one dragon. Even if you don't have to feed them, and their clothes size doesn't change they still seem like a tremendous sink for time, attention and money. Which is okay, so's my cat, but I don't have a house full of cats, either.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]elynne, 2007-07-02 04:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2007-07-02 05:40 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ataniell93, 2007-07-03 06:00 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]elynne, 2007-07-03 07:52 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]starcat_jewel
2007-07-01 11:21 pm UTC (link)
One thing I love about this story is the very first exchange, in which the interviewee identifies, challenges, and rebuts the inflammatory (and inaccurate) implications of the interviewer's initial question.* This is one of [info]ozarque's standard tools for defusing VATs, and I wish more people would use it against reporters and interviewers in exactly that way.

* Re-reading that sentence -- ye ghods, what a mouthful of words beginning with the letter "i"! :-)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]bemusedoutsider
2007-07-03 03:56 am UTC (link)
Yes, the GAVSD bit was great, and put me on the Interviewee's side immediately! I felt that if she could be that mature and balanced in her reply, whatever she was doing with the fashions was probably as well thought out and as beneficial.

As for dystopian ... in net the dragon game seemed to me a step in the right direction, or at least a holding action, to prevent a worse dystopis. It reminded me of Second Life and similar computer pastimes, where people spend real resources on some kind of virtual objective/collective game. When in real life people are crowded, working in cubicles and living in high-rises (perhaps on the moon?), computer 'games' may be the safest thing for them to do; better than bringing real children into such a crowded environment.

So I'm seeing the dragons as an outlet for reproductive/childraising/Barbie-Doll drives that would otherwise cause overpopulation. Maybe the next generation will have forgotten the more silly parts of those drives, and be doing something more constructive in their computer time. In the meantime there are the 'humankinders' (sorry I can't look back at the OP) presumably keeping the species going.

As for the reminder to have at least one child ... I see that indicating that the dragon thing is so fascinating that people are not BOTHERING to have real children. And that the government and/or various organizations are seriously worried that there will not be enough children unless they keep nagging people about it. IE, the tone I hear is like 'establishment' pleas to conserve water or prevent forest fires or get more exercise or something: a real danger but no one is making any actual laws about it. (Or -- okay, here's a chill -- any law strongly encouraging childbearing or strongly discouraging the cyberdragon thing, would be quickly voted out by the dragon-fascinated public!) What I hear strongly is a hapless plea by the government etc, which the interviewer and others are giving lip service to -- while their own feelings are totally satisfied by the dragon thing, and they will keep procrastinating the real child, not having any real feelings of wanting a real child.

I hear that the dragon thing has become so fascinating that they really can't pull their feelings back into the world of real children....

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to bemusedoutsider... - [info]ozarque, 2007-07-03 02:13 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - (Anonymous), 2007-07-04 01:41 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - (Anonymous), 2007-07-04 01:45 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - [info]ethesis, 2007-07-04 01:51 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - [info]elfwreck, 2007-07-03 05:35 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - (Anonymous), 2007-07-03 09:44 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - [info]elfwreck, 2007-07-04 01:12 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - (Anonymous), 2007-07-04 01:44 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - (Anonymous), 2007-07-04 01:48 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - [info]ethesis, 2007-07-04 01:57 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to bemusedoutsider... - [info]starcat_jewel, 2007-07-05 03:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sculpin, 2007-07-04 05:13 pm UTC (Expand)

(Anonymous)
2007-07-04 03:34 pm UTC (link)
"One thing I love about this story is the very first exchange, in which the interviewee identifies, challenges, and rebuts the inflammatory (and inaccurate) implications of the interviewer's initial question."

The thing that impresses me most about the story is that we hear from only two people (the interviewer and the cyberdragon fashion designer), and the two are on the same side (both aiming to convince the hypothetical CNN viewers that cyberdragons are no threat to the human birthrate) BUT by the end of the story, the readers are convinced that both of them are wrong, that the much-derided protesters are right to be worried, and that the interviewer probably never will have that child "when the time comes."

How do you do that, Suzette?

Doug--

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to Doug... - [info]ozarque, 2007-07-04 03:59 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]bemusedoutsider
2007-07-05 10:59 pm UTC (link)
OT for another entry, but here's a report that might use a little identifying and challenging:

Public Release: 5-Jul-2007
Journal of Counseling Psychology
Study finds wives have greater power in marriage problem-solving behavior
Men may still have more power in the workplace, but apparently women really are "the boss" at home. That's according to a new study by a team of Iowa State University researchers.
NIH/National Institute of Mental Health
http://www.iastate.edu/~nscentral/news/2007/jun/wifepower.shtml

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

OT ... response to bemusedoutsider.... - [info]ozarque, 2007-07-06 04:50 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]ataniell93
2007-07-01 11:53 pm UTC (link)
So why DO dragons need clothing? I'm trying to figure this out. I can see jewellery for dragons being immensely popular, but putting clothes on dragons reminds me of those people who spend a lot of time and money dressing up the concrete geese in their front yards. My mental image of "dragon" is of a pretty, serpentine beastie (whether large or small) which may or may not have wings and has two or four clawed feet, and which might wear a collar or rings or the like, but not pants or a skirt or a blouse.

I suppose if they had really large human-appearing genitalia people might be uncomfortable with that and want them covered, but if they're "cyber" dragons I wouldn't think they'd be designed like that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Response to ataniell93....
[info]ozarque
2007-07-02 12:46 pm UTC (link)
It's not that the dragons need their clothing, it's their owners who need it, as part of the entire cultural construct of Showing Off One's Dragons. Certainly dogs in these United States don't need little tuxedos, or Santa Claus suits, or assorted hooded sweatshirts, but people buy those items for their dogs all the same.

What made me think of the dragon-clothing was some recent news stories about the astonishing sums of money now being spent in Japan on clothing (and other items) for robots; the Japanese who are interviewed in the stories unhesitatingly admit that their robots take the place of children in their lives.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Response to ataniell93.... - [info]ataniell93, 2007-07-03 06:09 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to ataniell93.... continued... - [info]ozarque, 2007-07-03 02:16 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to ataniell93.... - [info]ethesis, 2007-07-04 02:00 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to ataniell93.... - [info]starcat_jewel, 2007-07-05 03:57 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to ataniell93.... and to starcat_jewel... - [info]ozarque, 2007-07-05 04:15 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to ataniell93.... - (Anonymous), 2007-07-05 05:48 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]kelsied
2007-07-02 09:11 pm UTC (link)
It took me a few lines to realize that this was a fictional story... the politics are very relevant. (Though I was momentarily shocked at the notion of a professional referring to police as "fedrobots," which struck me as a pejorative thing to call a human. *wry*)

I'm afraid it wasn't until the word "cyberdragon" first appears that I was really tipped off that something wasn't quite coming together the way I thought it was... then I had to reread the entire thing to re-fix it in my mind from a fictional perspective.

It occurs to me that there's a reason I magnetically attract weirdness.....

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[info]elfwreck
2007-07-02 11:29 pm UTC (link)
It caught me that way too--I don't know why I skipped over the word "cyberdragon" in red in the headline, but I did. Too used to ignoring news headlines as irrelevant to the story, I suppose.

I figured it out at "fedrobots," not cyberdragon later in the interview. But it took me a moment to re-sort my thoughts into "this is fic, not a repost of an interview from elsewhere on the web." An interesting realization, that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to elfwreck... - [info]ozarque, 2007-07-03 02:20 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to elfwreck... - [info]kelsied, 2007-07-03 04:15 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to elfwreck... - [info]elfwreck, 2007-07-03 04:51 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to kelsied...
[info]ozarque
2007-07-03 02:18 pm UTC (link)
I hope that by the end of the post it was clear that when I said "fedrobots" I was referring to actual robots that were doing law enforcement, not to human beings....

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Response to kelsied... - [info]kelsied, 2007-07-03 04:13 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]bemusedoutsider
2007-07-04 05:46 pm UTC (link)
In much of the developed world (Japan, much of Europe) .... the ratio of retirees to workers is likely to be unsupportably high, and the immigrants to Europe who will ease that problem are largely Midde Eastern Muslims, many of whom are hostile to European culture.

Well, we'd need to look at the ratio of workers on the one hand, to ALL non-workers on the other (retirees AND children). The fewer children to support, the more resources can go to support the retirees. (And, aside from medical, don't retirees need less worker-hours-support than children do?)

In the US and Canada, many immigrants are Hispanic (Christian) or East Asian (Hindu/Buddhist etc).

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(Anonymous)
2007-07-04 09:32 pm UTC (link)
Looking at it that way may be part of the problem: seeing that they have so many retirees, societies cut down on the dependency ratio by having fewer children, worsening the problem in the next generation. Easing the present finanical burden by deciding not to have a future is a bad trade.

Yes, here in North America we're much luckier in the composition of our immigrants, and perhaps also in our societies' talent for absorbing them in a relatively harmonious fashion.

--Pessimist.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]bemusedoutsider, 2007-07-04 11:37 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]rozasharn
2007-07-05 06:35 pm UTC (link)
The thing I noticed is that cyberdragons don't die. Having cyberdragons is justified as environmentally-responsible because they don't eat etc. the way children do. But they have clothes, and jewelry, and probably furniture and strollers and who knows what all, and they don't die. They will keep consuming those resources forever...or until their humans die, and then you have a lot of cyberdragons clogging the landscape, still needing to be taken care of somehow.

Every real human dies at some point, and stops consuming, and makes room for another human child.

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Hello, my name is Damion|Hi, my name is Damion|Hello, I'm Damion|Hi, I'm Damion
(Anonymous)
2008-03-21 01:18 pm UTC (link)
Hello everybody, my name is Damion, and I'm glad to join your conmunity,
and wish to assit as far as possible.

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