ozarque ([info]ozarque) wrote,
@ 2007-01-19 09:08:00
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Death and dying; part eight; intermission....
In response to my proposal that the sudden deaths of my first husband and of a relative by marriage were good deaths [at http://ozarque.livejournal.com/358501.html ], [info]fibermom commented:


"I joke about planning to have just that kind of death myself. But do you think it is actually possible to increase your odds of it? For example, by making a point of living each day intentionally, so that you would have a lessened chance of having to know that your last moments on earth were spent being catty about someone or shouting at someone? Or perhaps by taking good physical care of yourself in order to lessen the chances of a drawn-out healthcare experience?"


My first reaction to these three questions was that the answers were yes, and yes, and yes. Respectively. But then I had to set that reaction aside and give them the serious consideration they deserve, and they turn out to be very hard to answer.

Science tells us that there's no way around probability -- that having escaped six ice storms in a row, for example, does not mean that we're certain to be hit by the seventh one. That having tossed a coin and gotten heads ten times doesn't mean that the eleventh time we toss it we'll get (a) tails, or (b) heads again. That every single time we toss a coin the odds of getting heads or tails are exactly the same, no matter what our previous coin-tossing history may have been.

Health -- physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health -- doesn't work exactly that way. It's possible, by smoking three packs of cigarettes a day, to increase the odds that you will die of lung cancer. It's possible, by focusing your attention fiercely and exclusively on everything you dislike about your life, to increase the odds that you will suffer from depression, which is known to increase the odds that you will have other medical misadventures. It's possible, by focusing all your attention on your sins and your conviction that you will suffer for them throughout eternity, to increase the odds that you will have a spiritual crisis; similarly, it's possible that by flatly refusing to acknowledge your sins or the possibility that you might have to pay for them in some way, you will increase your odds of having a different sort of spiritual crisis. [Note: I'm using "sins" here as a cover term for "harming other living things deliberately"; I don't mean drinking or swearing or carousing or "living in sin," or any of the usual list.]

However, that doesn't change the well-known fact that large numbers of people die of disorders for which they have none of the scientifically-accepted risk factors, while large numbers of other people have the risk factors but never get the associated disorders; often people in the second group die peacefully in their sleep of old age. Many whiners and sinners thrive; many people whose attention is focused on good things and good deeds are whacked by one misfortune after another all their lives long. Which seems to indicate that human life is just as subject to the laws of probability as coins are.

And that leads me out onto a perilous cliff. I believe that the lives we live are intended to teach us a set of lessons, and that nothing -- including our death -- happens to us without a good reason; I believe that we perceive things and events as accidents and coincidences, rather than as consequences, only because we aren't yet able to perceive the patterns that they are a part of. I've said that in this journal before. I haven't yet been able to find a way to say it without offending quite a few readers, and I apologize to them once again.

Faith, then, not science, brings me to answer [info]fibermom's questions this way:

The answer is yes, by doing the things suggested, it is possible to increase your odds of having a good death and to decrease your odds of "a drawn-out healthcare experience" -- unless you are participating in a pattern that is more important for the welfare of your soul than "fairness" is, in which case the answer is no. That doesn't change the fact that "living each day intentionally, so that you would have a lessened chance of having to know that your last moments on earth were spent being catty about someone or shouting at someone" and "taking good physical care of yourself in order to lessen the chances of a drawn-out healthcare experience" are excellent practices for living a good life.


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[info]hilleviw
2007-01-19 03:27 pm UTC (link)
>"I believe that the lives we live are intended to teach us a set of lessons, and that nothing -- including our death -- happens to us without a good reason; I believe that we perceive things and events as accidents and coincidences, rather than as consequences, only because we aren't yet able to perceive the patterns that they are a part of. I've said that in this journal before. I haven't yet been able to find a way to say it without offending quite a few readers, and I apologize to them once again."

I'm not offended - I think - but isn't it hubris to suppose that the universe is centered on me? That friends and relatives would die or suffer to illustrate a pattern for me?

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Response to hilleviw...
[info]ozarque
2007-01-19 03:42 pm UTC (link)
I'm not wise enough to answer your question adequately. Full disclosure, that. I can say only that I believe the patterns involve all living things, and that you are as likely to die or suffer to "illustrate a pattern" for friends and relatives as they are to do that for you. [I put "illustrate a pattern" in quotes only because I'm not certain what it means, not as any indication of disrespect.]

Hubris, I'm afraid, is my going on trying to say these things at all, since I don't get any better at it.

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Re: Response to hilleviw...
[info]archangelbeth
2007-01-19 04:24 pm UTC (link)
It is ironic that just the other day I was answering a question about a role-playing game mechanic... in much the same way. (It's a game which some almost certainly find offensive, and some have apparently found an excellent way of expressing underlying truths and faith.) Essentially, there's an afterlife mechanic, and where someone goes after death depends on certain behaviors and how those actions (usually cusp-points, but not always) affected both that person and the universe at large.

If one takes the concept of learning from this life as the basis, then... everything will be teaching someone -- both audience and performer -- in every given instant, like jigsaw puzzles. The concept of "only one person learns" becomes a metaphysical impossibility, as much as the concept that a square in a quilt could be unaffected by those squares around it.

Which is probably me babbling on lack of blood sugar.

(It should be noted that, sadly, I don't actually subscribe to that worldview. I do, however, see an intricate elegance to it which I find very aesthetic.)

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[info]dteleki
2007-01-20 08:55 pm UTC (link)
isn't it hubris to suppose that the universe is centered on me?

If the universe (or whatever/whoever directs it) is infinitely intelligent, or so intelligent that it is for all practical purposes infinitely intelligent... then it can easily lavish enough intelligence and careful arrangement on each individual, to appear to be centered on that individual. For all individuals. Simultaneously.

The universe is centered on you: that's only "hubris" if it's false. Or if you think you're more important than everybody else. If it's actually true, for everybody and not just for you, "the universe is centered on you" is nothing more than realism.

Mind you, I don't actually believe this whole scenario. But it does make sense to me, as something that I can understand and disagree with.

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[info]wilfulcait
2007-01-19 03:45 pm UTC (link)
Drawn-out healthcare experiences fall upon the just and the unjust. The idea that we can somehow eat the perfect things, drink the perfect things, exercise and get everything just right and as a result illness will pass us by? That is a pernicious illusion. When I tell someone I have cancer, and they ask me what kind, and then they want to talk about whether I had "risk factors," and they are sympathetic once they decided it's not my fault and I didn't bring it on myself... in part they are trying to protect their own illusion that if they do things right they are safe.

I guess I don't believe that life is intended to teach us lessons, because I don't believe that there is Someone to be doing the intending. But I do believe that there are lessons for us in whatever life we find ourselves facing. Learning those lessons is the lemonade we make out of life's lemons. Unfortunately many of the lessons serious illness teaches aren't the fun fluffy ones -- the lesson for cancer, I'm learning, is the one about wrestling a bear. "Having cancer is like wrestling a bear; you don't stop when you're done, you stop when the bear is done."

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[info]lillibet
2007-01-19 04:14 pm UTC (link)
But I do believe that there are lessons for us in whatever life we find ourselves facing. Learning those lessons is the lemonade we make out of life's lemons.

Well put, and much closer to my thoughts on the subject.

I think that the whole issue of patterns is a dangerous one, because perceiving patterns seems to be a huge part of what our cerebral cortex is for and it is hard to control it from creating illusory patterns when real ones are not available for it to chew on. In other words, to quote [info]dpolicar, "when you're a hammer, all problems look like nails". As an example, I would present constellations: I am very confident that the stars are not arranged in patterns to commemorate the stories of various cultures, nevertheless our brains persist in finding those patterns in the night sky. A lot of omens and luck come down to perceiving patterns where I do not believe any to exist, and playing with this facility is one of the great joys of doing recreational drugs. This is not to denigrate the pattern-making skill, simply to warn against over-applying it or being too quick to believe what our brains tell us without adequate supporting data.

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[info]wilfulcait
2007-01-19 04:15 pm UTC (link)
There is a great book on the hazards of pattern-perception called "Why People Believe Weird Things."

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[info]frankie_ecap
2007-01-19 04:25 pm UTC (link)
I think everything you have written here is right.

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all we can do...
[info]maggieno
2007-01-19 08:26 pm UTC (link)
I suggest that the best death -- the only one we can do anything about -- is to be fully alive when you die. Even if your living at that moment can be no more than being fully involved with your heart, even if your physical situation allows no more than being conscious. Strive to be alive in a compassionate, affirmative mode every moment till you are dead. (The momentary resentment or anger is unimportant; what matters is the direction or your being.) This kind of moving forward is all we can determine about our life or our death; everything else is more than we can control.

The temptation, yes, is to judgment -- of people, of habits, of events that lead to death -- but who has all the facts to support such judgment?

I'm reminded of how people I knew reacted to the death of Darth Vader in the Star Wars movies: it seemed that those who came from relatively happy families took the scene as it was or according to their assessment of the movie; those who came from unhappy families but who had worked at getting through that unhappiness accepted the scene; those who came from unhappy families and who still were angry and resentful hated the scene. The latter wanted retribution, they wanted Vader to hang, they didn't want him to be able to die in his child's arms with a chance to claim salvation. They definitely did not want this "good death" for this nasty guy.

None of us know how we will die. All of us will know people whose quality of death seems inappropriate for the life lived: The wonderful father who suffers greatly, coming to question "what he did wrong" to the heartbreak of those who love him; who dies in pain and with a compromised mind. The harmful mother who judged everything and everyone by her benefit of event and person, refusing to consider that she ever did anything wrong; who gets up on morning, turns on the TV, and drops dead instantly of a stroke.

And then there's the wife who took care of everyone, who, at the end of chemo, decides to die and withdraws from food & water & her family; who moves into death at her own speed and with her own thoughts. To this day, many family members think that she had a horrible death; I suspect that it was physically hard, but spiritually appropriate for her.

Or the friend whose father had quadruple by-pass at 45 and who subsequently was very careful with her diet and exercise...and who is dying young of cancer instead of a heart attack.

All you can direct is your own state of mind (and even that can get away from a person at times). A person may wish for a sudden death -- and then worry that such a death will be hard for loved ones. A person may prepare for dying as has been discussed over the last few days -- but still die before updating that info after some disaster happens -- and have loved ones who are appalled by such preparation.

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Death and Dying
(Anonymous)
2007-01-19 09:17 pm UTC (link)
I have observed in my own life and being unfortunate enough to see someone throw themself in front of a subway train that death is important and neccessary.Death shakes us up and makes us( hopefully ) look at ourselves, those we love, basically everything in our lives and re-assessed it all, re-prioritize.It also needs to happen with a certain frequency as even the lessons death teaches wear off, wich is the joy and sadness of how memories fade and the nature of humanity, unfortunately.Like a sweet cake with bitter coffee or a warm fire and a winters night, death makes us appreciate life. Without it everything would be left for "later"

I don't know if you have heard the saying: "While pessimists may be proven right in the end, optimists have a better time along the way"

Thanks for your thoughts

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