ozarque ([info]ozarque) wrote,
@ 2005-12-08 17:37:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Barriers to getting rich, part 2
[info]rabidsamfan -- in the context of a book on better communication with kids, commented:
"But it would be nice to see something like that in those little cheap paperback pamphlets on the grocery store impulse racks by the cash registers, wouldn't it?"

Yes. Many times over. And that is precisely the problem.

A very long time ago, when I wrote Native Tongue, my goal was to get out to as many people as possible just the core basics of linguistics and language science, without their having to wade through the impenetrable thickets of Academic Regalian that represented linguistics literature at the time. (This was before the superstardom of Tannen and Pinker and George Lakoff.) I thought it was important for people to know what linguistics is and what linguists do and why that matters; I still do. I didn't think that the way to get that information out was to write a book called Why You'll Be Better Off If I Can Dispel Your Ignorance About Linguistics And Language Science, or a book called Introduction To The Core Basics Of Linguistics And Language Science. I did the best I could to get to the widest possible audience; for me, that turned out to mean people who read science fiction, and some of the people who read feminist fiction, and college profs desperate for something that students in a linguistics "survey" course might be willing to read voluntarily.

However, I was well aware at the time that the largest group of readers in the U.S. was the readers of romance novels, which make up roughly half of all paperback books that are actually read. If I'd had sufficient skill to put the information into a romance novel I would have done that instead; I just wasn't capable of writing in that genre.

When I wrote the first Gentle Art book, the situation was much the same. The language environment all around me was so toxic that it was literally making people sick, literally injuring them and doing them harm, and they didn't seem to have any resources at all for dealing with hostile language that didn't just make matters worse. I wrote The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense as a self-help book that could be read easily and quickly -- instead of writing Introduction To Rhetoric For The Repair Of Toxic Language Environments -- because I wanted to reach ordinary people in a crisis. It didn't seem to me that academics and the intellectual elite needed any information on verbal self-defense; if they felt a need for it, they knew where to look. They didn't need any help, and I wasn't writing for them. Again, if I'd been able to figure out some way to put the information into a romance novel or a thriller -- or into TV Guide -- I'd have done that instead.

Sometimes I do this stuff, and it seems to me to work at least to a modest extent. (Having Barnes & Noble marketing for me was a big help, obviously, and increased the odds that it would work.) And then there are the times it doesn't work, as when I tried to do an end run around Barnes & Noble's refusal to bring out a mass market edition of the GAVSD by putting the core information into a sort-of novel that would also be a quick and easy read, and published Peacetalk 101. That didn't work, primarily because I made so many marketing mistakes. I was, and am, sorry about that.

Now I find myself in a very similar situation with this equally small body of basic information on how to feed pregnant women and babies up to the age of two in such a way that the infant brains aren't damaged. That's not a big chunk of information either. But it needs to be packaged in a way that doesn't insult people. It needs to be a quick and easy and entertaining read that doesn't make anybody feel guilty or shamed. If I had learned, by now, how to write a romance novel, that would be exactly where it ought to go, since women still do most of the feeding of pregnant women and babies.

I don't know how to write a romance novel. Drat and blast. I've read a dozen books (and many many articles) on how to do it, and heaven knows the Internet is running over with resources on how to do it, but I just plain can't get the hang of it, no matter how hard I try. The results are always hilarious. Drat and blast.

======
[Afternote on my way out the door: I need to write a series of romance novels, actually, in my copious spare time. Or somebody does. One that teaches that basic chunk of early-life nutritional information you've been kind enough to discuss with me. One that does the same thing for the most basic financial information -- like how to get started with D.R.I.P. stocks, and how to start a small business, and the magic of compound interest. One that teaches self-defense against the 100 worst money-wasting things the media keeps telling people they have to do. That kind of thing.]


(Post a new comment)


[info]sighkey
2005-12-08 06:10 pm UTC (link)
Here here on the comments about the difficulty of writing romance novels. I had a go at writing formulaic romance novels years ago and actually sent a part manuscript away, which came back with the comment that it didn't follow the formula but would I like to try again. I never did because by that time I realised that everything I read was correct - you can't successfully write in a particular genre if you don't enjoy reading that genre. I don't like reading romance novels - I usually get irritated at the protagonists for messing their relationships up as much as they do for plot purposes and I find it extremely difficult to suspend belief in stories in which there are usually only 2 main characters and no more than 3 secondary characters. I do appreciate, however, how difficult it actually is to write books that follow a strict formula - the creative part of formula fiction seems to be finding ways to make the same story sound new each time you write it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ozarque
2005-12-08 07:03 pm UTC (link)
Understood. I am opposed -- grimly opposed -- to the entire concept of Romantic Love in its 20th/21st century version. I'm afraid that makes me a very poor candidate for romance novel writer.

It shouldn't work that way. People who write novels about serial killers and cannibalism and [vamp till ready] don't usually do that because they approve of those things. A competent writer should be able to write competently about a topic without regard to her or his feelings about that topic. I realize that it dents the mystique to say so, but writing is a craft like any other craft; if you wait around for inspiration you'll starve. But every attempt I make at the romance genre turns into truly vicious parody in one heck of a hurry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]nolly, 2005-12-08 07:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sighkey, 2005-12-08 08:00 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]skylarker
2005-12-08 06:16 pm UTC (link)
I need to write a series of romance novels, actually, in my copious spare time. Or somebody does.

I've been studying the special skills of romance writing by reading the work of several romance writers who impress me. Nora Roberts is widely read for good reason: she is sympathetic to a wide range of characters and lifestyles and does her research, giving more than a superficial glimpse of the lives and work of her heroes and heroines.

Writing about the issues you cite above sounds like a project (or series of projects) that might interest her, but I don't know how to reach her.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ozarque
2005-12-08 07:06 pm UTC (link)
You can usually reach a writer from her/his website these days, and a Google search would find Roberts' site for you if she has one. You can always reach a writer through the publisher -- but you have to add "eventually" to the sentence. I've gotten letters from readers through my publisher that had sat around on somebody's desk for six months before being forwarded.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Basic nutrition in a novel
[info]kelathefinn
2005-12-08 06:17 pm UTC (link)
FWIW (For What It's Worth) I am currently writing a 'romance' book that is really about development cooperation, and I intend to put a bit about the infocampaign the protagonists did for nutrition, and the one for HIV/AIDS in it. I've designed these campaigns, so it should have verisimilitude, and the info will be sound. BUT, I am NOT going to ask you to read it!!! I have no idea even how to get it published, let alone market it, it's just something I HAVE TO WRITE, if that makes sense.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic nutrition in a novel - [info]eclectic338, 2005-12-08 08:25 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic nutrition in a novel - [info]kelathefinn, 2005-12-08 09:08 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic nutrition in a novel - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-09 02:49 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]sunfell
2005-12-08 06:25 pm UTC (link)
Maybe it should be a How To... kind of book. Like How To Get Your Child Off To Their Best Start, or How to Stop Worring About What the Media is Telling You.

I think that perhaps appealing to people's self interest is one way to do this.

(Reply to this)


[info]jdulac
2005-12-08 06:35 pm UTC (link)
how about the book called "How to make your baby smarter?" Is it possible to write from a position of looking forward that does not automatically make someone defensive about the present or past? (I know one has to try to do this in business, where powerful executives do not want to hear that they have screwed up, but need to be pointed at a way out all the same). I can imagine the "Smart Baby" diet, and the whole "Smart Baby" franchise... It has to come with fashions in order to be a popular movement :).

And would it be possible to write a romance novel where the protagonist is pregnant, and is locked in an attic by the Bad People, but knows she needs to make sure that her baby lives and becomes strong enough to revenge his father, or whatever? I'm afraid I've never read a romance novel; all I can think of is the pregnant woman imprisoned in Tale of Two Cities...

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]starcat_jewel, 2005-12-09 02:29 am UTC (Expand)

[info]rosefox
2005-12-08 06:36 pm UTC (link)
I'm reminded strongly of the pro-family planning soap operas used to great effect in, I believe, Central and South America.

Would you mind if I mention this conversation to my mother? She's published several romance novels in the past and I'm sure she still has the knack; and I think she'd love the idea of using them to distribute information this way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to rosefox..... - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-08 06:56 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]muffyjo
2005-12-08 06:50 pm UTC (link)
How cool to go to the ob/gyn, planned parenthood or other such place and to find a copy of that in the waiting room. I mean, it's so much more hip to be caught reading than the contraceptive information pamphlets and a great deal more informative than the magazines.

You could market it through Medical Pubications as well as to the general populace.

(Reply to this)


[info]dichroic
2005-12-08 06:53 pm UTC (link)
I haven't read the GAVSD (at least, not yet) so I may be off base with it. But the closest thing I can think of to it as a romance novel would be L.M. Montgomery's The Blue Castle.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]madronn, 2005-12-08 07:29 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]nolly
2005-12-08 07:17 pm UTC (link)
I, personally, would be interested in the financial information in a non-romance novel form; I've never been interested in most romance novels.

But I think a lot of people would buy a supermarket mini-book called "How To Talk To Your Teenager". I have no idea how such things get published, and I doubt they make much for the authors, but I think people would buy it.

(Reply to this)


[info]queenmaggie
2005-12-08 07:47 pm UTC (link)
I am one of those folks with the perpetual novel in the works ;D... and it does happen to be a romance: particularly an Historical, since that's what I work in (I'm a professional actor at the local Rennaisance Festival.. and I occasionally tour to other faires) I took up this particular story line because I despised how often the first thing that happens in a romance is that people misunderstand or misinterpret each other... I started my story with the protagonists figuring out that they've been misinterpretying each other across a cultural difference, and going on from there to figure out why the negatives were happening.
I'm absolutely certain that there are pamphlets out there about good nutrition for pregnent women and babies... at least through WIC... but that runs into the same responce that Suzanne was talking about earlier"Who are these city-folks to tell me what I should feed my babies?!"

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2005-12-08 08:17 pm UTC (link)
(Michael Farris)

I think the food thing is much more difficult than you've let on (I assume you're not often accused of being overly optimistic).
With verbal self-defense, as bad as the situation was/is, I don't perceive the same kind of huge industries that have a big financial stake in perpetuating toxic verbal environments.

With food, in the US, there are industries that have very real financial stakes in perpetuating bad food choices and they work consciously or unconsciously together (it seems to me that junk/fast food producers and the diet industry have a symbiotic relationship, more or less like good cop/bad cop). Good luck in making a dent there.

As wonderful as the romance novel as covert teaching medium is, I would be afraid that the financial or nutritional information therein would quickly mutate and quickly the information would be about as realistic as the relationships in romance novels. It would require determined, principled editing and a huge amount of willpower to keep that from happening. Still it's a wonderful idea if it could be done right.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]exquiscadavre, 2005-12-08 09:58 pm UTC (Expand)
Response to Michael Farris.... - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-09 02:58 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]takumashii
2005-12-08 09:00 pm UTC (link)
For what it's worth, I would be very interested in this:

One that teaches self-defense against the 100 worst money-wasting things the media keeps telling people they have to do.

--In any format. I really think that I need it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]neonchameleon, 2005-12-09 12:22 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-09 02:59 pm UTC (Expand)
Have I got a plot for you!
[info]idiotgrrl
2005-12-08 09:01 pm UTC (link)
Not Romance -- Heartwarming Family. Here's the plot.

You have this old woman who lives out in the country and has a vegetable garden and in general clings to the old ways. Date: whenever plausible. She has two daughters. One gets out of there as fast as possible and settles in Smallville, AR (est. Cyrus Small, 1823). The other stays on the old homestead and grows vegetables, some of them for market. Each one of them marries and has a daughter.

The country cousin dies (something plausible and not connected with the Old Ways. A drunk driver?) ansd the small town cousin comes to help out. The small town cousin never learned vegetable gardening or cooking; she has a minimum wage job and eats and buys junk food, as her mother did before her. Which she starts feeding her cousin's children.

However, she or someone - the narrator? A friend of the family? _ has noticed how the country cousin's children are lively and healthy and smart, while the other cousin's children are puny and whiny and have bad teeth.

I'll leave you to figure out how the town cousin Sees the Light. Maybe an all-round reconciliation in which the drunk driver plays a part?

Pat

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Have I got a plot for you! - (Anonymous), 2005-12-09 01:06 am UTC (Expand)

[info]exquiscadavre
2005-12-08 09:59 pm UTC (link)
Perhaps you could try a mystery novel, instead. Its not as big a readership as romance, but larger than the sci-fi readership, I believe.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]kayshapero, 2005-12-09 12:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kayshapero, 2005-12-09 12:19 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]still_asking, 2005-12-09 04:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]neonchameleon, 2005-12-09 12:20 am UTC (Expand)

[info]neonchameleon
2005-12-09 12:17 am UTC (link)
"But it would be nice to see something like that in those little cheap paperback pamphlets on the grocery store impulse racks by the cash registers, wouldn't it?"

Beyond vaccination, doesn't the US have any public health programs at all?

(I'm currently wondering what can be done with period romances and nutrition - simmilar to the way that Doctor Who was supposed to work with teaching science).

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]thecert, 2005-12-09 12:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]neonchameleon, 2005-12-09 01:11 am UTC (Expand)
Public health in the U.S. - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-09 03:04 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]beckyzoole, 2005-12-09 06:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]fibermom, 2005-12-09 08:00 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]thecert
2005-12-09 12:44 am UTC (link)
Two comments on romance novels.

(1) According to Janice Radway in Reading the Romance, one defense that women can use to good effect for "wasting" their time on romance novels is that the novels are educational. Readers learn about faraway places or get new recipes to try out. So this notion of writing a romance as a means of education is doubly on the right track. It has the potential to reach the right audience, and it can do something useful for them - not only help them toward better nutrition, but give more ammo against anyone who hassles them about reading romances.

(2) Ozarque tries to write romances novels, but The results are always hilarious. Drat and blast.

This may not be as bad as you think. I've read more than one romance that was marketed as a straight romance but was absolutely, positively parody. I have no idea what the publisher or the average reader thought, but I've read enough novels (good, bad, and deliberately parodic) to know what I saw. Maybe, just maybe, what looks "hilarious" to a sophisticated writer could in fact pass muster as a straight romance.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]kelsied, 2005-12-09 04:38 am UTC (Expand)

[info]ethesis
2005-12-09 03:00 am UTC (link)
Drat, you deleted the post I responded to, guess I guessed wrong as to which one would stick.

You should have the "Just Like Sam" material in the LJ spawned e-mail though.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

you deleted the post I responded to - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-09 03:05 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: you deleted the post I responded to - [info]ethesis, 2005-12-10 12:33 am UTC (Expand)

[info]monkeypumpkin
2005-12-09 05:50 am UTC (link)
I work in public health, trying to disseminate this kind of information and these are exactly the issues we grapple with. I was on a team that produced an education soap opera, and it was a constant challenge to keep a balance between interesting plot and enough information to be worth doing.

In my own opinion, threre are three major barriers:

1) People just don't believe in science. They don't trust it, or see what it has to do with their own lives. Even if they are told about nutrition, the authority doing the telling is either in a position of saying "this is true because I am richer and more educated and you should believe me" or trying to teach people how to understand scientific data which they have not been taught to interpret.

2) The issue you've been getting into here - how do you convey this information. I doubt even a romance novel would work because the target audience in the US, I suspect, simply does not read for pleasure, not even romance. Which leads us to TV, and not boring news TV but entertainment TV.

3) Having information doesn't make people act on it. Look at everyone who starts smoking despite knowing the health effects. Or all the things in your own life you know you ought to do because it's hard or you don't know how to start. Like I should really clean my closet and throw away all those clothes I haven't worn in years.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Response to monkeypumpkin... - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-09 03:09 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Response to monkeypumpkin... - [info]monkeypumpkin, 2005-12-09 05:31 pm UTC (Expand)
Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - (Anonymous), 2005-12-09 08:00 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - [info]monkeypumpkin, 2005-12-10 04:48 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-10 02:04 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - [info]kmd, 2005-12-11 01:04 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - [info]ozarque, 2005-12-11 01:12 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - [info]kmd, 2005-12-12 01:52 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Why can't we sell the good stuff, too? - [info]dteleki, 2005-12-11 02:53 am UTC (Expand)

[info]carbonelle
2005-12-09 06:16 am UTC (link)
Don't go for the mums, but their pre-teen children (who will be mums in their turn: How about a comic book series ala "Sailor Moon" et al.?

(Reply to this)

lots of miscellaneous ideas...
[info]dteleki
2005-12-09 09:08 am UTC (link)
...maybe more confusing than helpful, but who knows?

A good book about personal finance, I thought it was well-written, perhaps something similar but more accessible could do a lot of good: Your Money or Your Life: Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence, by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin.

If your romance novel turns into a vicious satire, market it with reverse-psychology cover copy like the Lemony Snicket books for children: this book is boring and moralistic and pointlessly silly in spots, and in a few places extremely disgusting, oh no you don't want to read this, you'll hate it utterly, it talks down its nose at you, etc...

Supermarket checkout-line title ideas:
. How To Feed Your Baby's Brain
. Turbo-Boost Your Baby's Brain!
. This Is Your Baby's Brain On Steroids

Healthy recipes in general... perhaps something resembling Like Water For Chocolate. Recipes, romance, history, magic realism, ethnic angle.

(Reply to this)


[info]ethesis
2005-12-09 01:04 pm UTC (link)
The little book series is:

Just Like Sam -- secrets to raising your child to become just like Sam Walton.

The sub-parts are:

Eating Just Like Sam

Living Just Like Sam

etc.

Those are the kinds of titles that grab and hold the audience you want.

(Reply to this)

Try a conspiracy theory
[info]idiotgrrl
2005-12-09 08:52 pm UTC (link)
Your new title: "What THEY don't want you to know about (getting rich, feeding your baby, getting out of poverty, fighting back...)"

(Reply to this)

Re: Response to rosefox.....
[info]rosefox
2005-12-12 07:56 pm UTC (link)
I've emailed her the salient points. We'll see what she says. I'm tempted to take a stab at it if she doesn't want to (I'm sure the project would appeal to her, but she's very busy lately).

(Reply to this)


Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…